What do you think of my mod to the Language Skills...

[jaerdaph]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thinking Ouside The Box

Then I sincerely apologise, that was not my intent at all (to cause harm). I knew people lost in the tragedy as well. It was a national event, like Pearl Harbor.

Again, I am sorry if my opinion was hurtful, that was not my intention, and I should have worded it better to make that clear. I'm sorry you lost people close to you, and I hope my comments didn't open wounds with you.

Apology accepted. Thank you

As for the Capital of the World thing, it's just something we say here in New York, politicians, the media, businesses, and everyday folk, what have you. It's 50% true, 50% hype. It has more to do with the fact that our local population is made of people from literally all over the globe. I can walk or ride the subway for entire blocks and not hear a word of English spoken. But as soon as I engage one of those fellow New Yorkers in conversation, 9 times out of 10 they speak English. That's all I meant by it. Nothing political, and just a personal observation.

Anyhow, yes, back to the topic at hand.

Peace

 

[jaerdaph]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thinking Ouside The Box

I knew people lost in the tragedy as well. It was a national event, like Pearl Harbor.

Just wanted to add I'm extremely sorry for your loss as well. We just have to keep telling ourselves they are in a better place. I watched both towers collapse that day from the roof of my office building with no idea of the repercussions to come, both personally and globally. I will *never* forget.

What do you think of the idea of having ranks in language-groups, like "romance languages"?

I think you're on to something.

Does anyone besides my 40-year-old behind* remember their high school English/Grammar textbook? They always included a chart of the language families. Perhaps that would be a good place to start, Jontu. I found this on Google:

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc/oe/oe-ie.html

* For the (ahem) historical record, said 40-year-old behind was actually carded when buying a bottle of wine, in New York City of all places, over the holidays. I'm still dead sexy baby! Yeah!!!

 

[Jontu Kontar]

Compiled D20 Modern Language Ideas...

With the input from several people on 2 different MB's, I've finally come up with what I will be using for my camp.

I am going to use "read/write (language)" as I initially described. However, I am going to modify "speak (language)" so that each rank in "R/W (L)" counts as 1/2 rank in "S (L)". (As per par odd numbers round down.) In addition I am going to provide 2 feats for those characters who seek to specialize in speaking other languages.

Polyglot:
Prereqs: Int 12+, 2+ x "read/write (language)"
Text: Rather than "read/write (language)" counting as half ranks they count as 3/4 of a rank.

Advanced Polyglot:
Prereqs: Polyglot
Text: Rather than "read/write (language)" counting as a three-quarter rank they now count as 7/8 of a rank.

I will probably make a profession around this linguist concept that gives the first feat for free and 3 bonuses to languages. But that is in the very initial stages.

 

[Mistwell]

Re: Compiled D20 Modern Language Ideas...

With the input from several people on 2 different MB's, I've finally come up with what I will be using for my camp.

I am going to use "read/write (language)" as I initially described. However, I am going to modify "speak (language)" so that each rank in "R/W (L)" counts as 1/2 rank in "S (L)". (As per par odd numbers round down.) In addition I am going to provide 2 feats for those characters who seek to specialize in speaking other languages.

Polyglot:
Prereqs: Int 12+, 2+ x "read/write (language)"
Text: Rather than "read/write (language)" counting as half ranks they count as 3/4 of a rank.

Advanced Polyglot:
Prereqs: Polyglot
Text: Rather than "read/write (language)" counting as a three-quarter rank they now count as 7/8 of a rank.

I will probably make a profession around this linguist concept that gives the first feat for free and 3 bonuses to languages. But that is in the very initial stages.

Man, you continue to be extra harsh on languages. 7/8s? Come on now, that is so non-standard as to make it useless. It should be 1, not 7/8s.

 

[Jontu Kontar]

Re: Re: Compiled D20 Modern Language Ideas...

Man, you continue to be extra harsh on languages. 7/8s? Come on now, that is so non-standard as to make it useless. It should be 1, not 7/8s.

Maybe so but you haven't offered anything of value to me in this discussion. I started this thread asking about opinions on my alternate system of languages. From your first post you maintained that the base system is the most perfect one. Your subsequent posts only reinterated this opinion in a variety of ways (with the exception of the thread hijack). As such unless someone else wishes to post something of value I consider the issue closed.

 

[Mistwell]

Re: Re: Re: Compiled D20 Modern Language Ideas...

Maybe so but you haven't offered anything of value to me in this discussion. I started this thread asking about opinions on my alternate system of languages. From your first post you maintained that the base system is the most perfect one. Your subsequent posts only reinterated this opinion in a variety of ways (with the exception of the thread hijack). As such unless someone else wishes to post something of value I consider the issue closed.

So if I had been a brand new poster on this subject, my opinion might have had validity in your eyes. But because you didn't agree with my earlier opinion on a related subject, my current opinion on your NEW change has no validity in your eyes, even though my current opinion has nothing to do with my earlier opinion?

 

[Falanor]

It is more severe than KoK" -- Mistwell

Only in that it gives no compensating skill points such as Kalamar does, which I would suggest that this system does as well.

"KoK has only a dozen or so languages, while d20 Modern has hundreds if not thousands." -- Mistwell

If by a dozen you mean 38 without different dialects...then yes, it does.

As for hundreds if not thousands...I've only seen about 184...could you fill out the rest?

"KoK has one primary language for most NPCs: Common. d20 Modern does not." -- Mistwell

Actually Dr. Zamenhof's Esperanto would be a common language (or at least an attempt at one).

"It may be a similar rule, but in a new context of d20 Modern it puts PCs at a significant disadvantage." -- Mistwell

While Kalamar goes from a 0 to 12+ rule to get mastery, do you really just stop at 12 when you have achieved "mastery"? While I agree that there are plenty of skills to spend points (though Fantasy D20 has quite a few more in this area) on, I do think this system has merit. If I were to make a suggestion or two it would be to lower the rate of mastery a small amount.

 

[Mistwell]

It is more severe than KoK" -- Mistwell

Only in that it gives no compensating skill points such as Kalamar does, which I would suggest that this system does as well.

His proposed system goes to 20, while Kalamar goes to 12. That's a huge difference.

"KoK has only a dozen or so languages, while d20 Modern has hundreds if not thousands." -- Mistwell

If by a dozen you mean 38 without different dialects...then yes, it does.

Um, I count 29, without mention of dialectic difficulty. That's from the KoK Player's Guide...am I missing something?

As for hundreds if not thousands...I've only seen about 184...could you fill out the rest?

"The total number of languages in the world is estimated to be between 6,000 and 6,500." from http://www.krysstal.com/langfams.html
I got a similar number from several other websites.

"KoK has one primary language for most NPCs: Common. d20 Modern does not." -- Mistwell

Actually Dr. Zamenhof's Esperanto would be a common language (or at least an attempt at one).

I am aware of esperanto, and Lojban, and the even odder Solresol language. While any of those COULD be a common language, none of them is, and each is spoken by only a handfull of people in the world (and I am aware of nobody who speaks all three of them - now that would impress me). However, the KoK system assumes that Merchant's Tongue (AKA common) is spoken in most places in the world.

"It may be a similar rule, but in a new context of d20 Modern it puts PCs at a significant disadvantage." -- Mistwell

While Kalamar goes from a 0 to 12+ rule to get mastery, do you really just stop at 12 when you have achieved "mastery"? While I agree that there are plenty of skills to spend points (though Fantasy D20 has quite a few more in this area) on, I do think this system has merit. If I were to make a suggestion or two it would be to lower the rate of mastery a small amount.

I'm not saying the system has no merit at all (at least not right now), I am saying it is too extreme, as are you, in your own way. I believe a character should be able to master a language, by using ranks only, in a matter of a few levels. KoK puts it at 9th level for total mastery, in a world of significantly fewer languages and one fairly standard language. The proposed system here puts it at level 13, in a world of 6000+ languages and no fairly standard language (unless you are in the business world, in which case English is close to a standard language). I just think it is too harsh. Why devote 16 ranks to one language when the overwhelming odds are you will never have an opportunity to use that language?

 

[Falanor]

"His proposed system goes to 20, while Kalamar goes to 12. That's a huge difference."

His system goes to 20, yes. Kalamar's has no listed upper limit. Kalamar is 12+.

"Um, I count 29, without mention of dialectic difficulty. That's from the KoK Player's Guide...am I missing something?"

Yeah, my ability to screw up in basic counting and forgetting the dialect thing is in Spycraft.

"However, the KoK system assumes that Merchant's Tongue (AKA common) is spoken in most places in the world."

It also makes the assumption that governments and national pride do not detract from the spread of such a language.

"I'm not saying the system has no merit at all (at least not right now), I am saying it is too extreme, as are you, in your own way."

True, but you are not offering anything up to aid, you are just criticizing it.

"Why devote 16 ranks to one language when the overwhelming odds are you will never have an opportunity to use that language?"

Why devote 12 for the same reason? Not every language a character learns will ever be mastered (sort of like real life). Fact really more than two is kinda pushing it.

 

[Jontu Kontar]

About KoK Languages?

To Falanor: In several of your posts you mention that KoK is similiar to what I am doing. I'm kind of curious how close it really is?

Do they do bonuses/penalties for non-/fluency in a language?

My scale is obviously in 5 skill point increments. What is their scale?


(PS. As wonderful as KoK may be, I'm not going to get it /just/ to learn how their language system works. Hence, the need for these questions.)