D&D General What do you think of the dubious Morales of this crime gang I made using tables A Mate made that saves the lives of babies via highly illegal means?

JMISBEST

Explorer
What do you think of the dubious Morales of this crime gang I made using tables A Mate made that saves the lives of babies that aren't yet 1 but they do this by abducting them from families that can't or won't afford to raise them, clothe them, feed them or home them then they ship them abroad were the babies are sold, but at least their not sold as slaves

Rather their sold to people like Noble's and wealthy merchants that are unable to have children of their own that are rich enough to pay to adopt a child they believe is a orphan that are also are desperate enough for a heir, luckily in the country the babies are sold in A Adopted Child can inherited anything other then The Throne and Titles that are Higher then Senior Earl, that they won’t ask questions

Its A 1,027 Strong Gang that steals babies that come/came from families of poor working class commoners that aren’t yet 1, these are shipped abroad and sold and their leader is A 10th level Fighter Gnome Fighter

Luckily, for the babies, the gangs actually not that bad, that’s because due to The Entire Gang being lawful evil they don’t sell them into slavery, rather they sell them to forgein nobles or wealthy merchants that are unable to have children that are rich enough to pay to adopt a child they believe is a orphan that are also are desperate enough for a heir, even if the heir is adopted, that they won’t ask questions

This means that their actually not all bad, the tables even revealed that their A Lot like what A DAD Version of Robin Hood would have be if he'd been A Kidnapper in that he snatch's babies whose parents can't afford to even try to raise them, they ship them abroad, luckily the place were they operate is so close to the border that you can get their in less then 20 minutes
Once in the neighboring country they sell the baby to Noble or wealthy merchant that is unable to have children that are rich enough to pay to adopt a child they believe is a orphan that are also are desperate enough for a heir, luckily in the country the babies are sold in A Adopted Child can inherited anything other then The Throne and Titles that are Higher then Senior Earl, that they won’t ask questions
 

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Tutara

Explorer
I think using babies as collateral is reductive and almost comically bad. Human trafficking is human trafficking. There are some great plays looking at this - Wastwater in particular- but there’s no way these are the good guys.
 

aco175

Legend
You seem to be arguing degrees of badness. If people steal babies from other people, they are bad. They act as judge on who they steal from- arguably only from people they think can't or won't take care of the baby themselves. They then sell the babies to people that they deem are able to care for them and have no other design than to have a child for themselves. They are still selling babies no matter how you slice it.

The big problems are; who decides that someone does not deserve their baby, who decides who is worthy of being sold to, what happens when you need more babies, what happens when you have too many babies and need to sell them. If babies are a commodity, then there is the laws of supply and demand. The morals go down when you have to many of one.

It may make a good adventure to have a baby taken and the PCs need to track down who had him and get him back.
 

JMISBEST

Explorer
I think using babies as collateral is reductive and almost comically bad. Human trafficking is human trafficking. There are some great plays looking at this - Wastwater in particular- but there’s no way these are the good guys.
I think they seem themselves as good guys that don't see anything wrong in what their doing, at best their heavily misguided

They likely see it that in this situations the ends, saving the lives of Babies that without their help would die by putting them in the care of a kind, wealthy, caring family were they will lead great lives and will inherit vast sums of cash, maybe even inherit a title, justify the means, snatching them from their biological families that can't or won't afford to raise them, clothe them, feed them or house them and the only reason they sell them away is rather then give them is so they can keep funding the operation, which means they will keep saving lives

Maybe a good comparison might be a extremist organization that's A Cross between The Samaritans and Save The Children with A Bit of The GeDeCo from Traveller thrown in

Basically for whatever reason they don't have the means to legally prevent babies dying just because their biological families that can't or won't afford to raise them, clothe them, feed them or house them so they decide to hell with it, we've either follow the law, which means innocent babies dying or we break the law and becomes criminals but at least we can prevent innocent babies dying, fine we the law and becomes criminals but at least we can prevent innocent babies dying,
 
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JMISBEST

Explorer
A bad person can think they are a good person. It doesn’t make them a good person.
I've had a thought, in some situations a person can do a lot of bad things but as long as he or she choose's his targets very carefully he or she will still be 1 of the good guys

1 example of that is Robin Hood who did a lot of bad things but because he only targeted The Sherrif, Prince John, their followers, their lackey's, those that enjoyed doing the evil tasks assigned to them and people like them Robin was still 1 of the good guys
 


Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Several times in quick succession, you have come for advice because you were making rolls on a table, went deep into details - which did not work well together - and the big picture got away from you.

I think you should take a step back and ask "What am I trying to accomplish with this character / concept / organization / potential plot arc?" If and when the charts and tables get in the way, put them aside.
 

Ixal

Adventurer
Why do they have to kidnap the babies in the first place? When they only take babies from families who can't feed them anyway and/or don't want them they could just openly offer to take them out of their hands or just buy them.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Villains are the heroes of their own stories.

I can see a group that spirits away children in miserable conditions with miserable/non-existent parenting and sending them to those they know will care for them. A lot of it, though, is in intent. A group who believes the law to be corrupt may act without permission in abducting the children. They might charge a fee - but it will be more to cover the cost of the group's activities - paying off corrupt officials, creating safehouses, paying for medical care, transportation, "adoption" paperwork and the like. And they'd have to be very careful about their clientele - they need to be doing their best to improve the lives of the children involved.

Still, its all a very gray operation, vigilante at the least and obviously willing to work outside the law instead of within its bounds. It could quickly crumble with the involvement of one bad seed at either end of the program or if the organization stumbles in their chosen path. With such a specific number - 1027 - that's a lot of points of failure, and that's a lot of babies being moved around. Way more than is healthy. Someone is likely to notice this, and not understanding or agreeing with the organization is going to try and take down these "babynappers", regardless of their reason.

Finally, in the first post you mentioned this is a "criminal" gang - the more likely they are involved in other illegal activities, the less likely this group is to be on the up-and-up and it all just rolls downhill from there.
 

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