What do you want to see in the fourth Adventure Path?

[glass]

I think you're being far too anal but whatever floats your boat. I see no reason why an AP has to be arbitrarily 1-20 just because they've all been that way up to this point.

It is hardly arbtrary to think that words with established meaning shouldn't be arbitrarily redefined for no good reason. Currently it means 1-20 or thereabouts. If you start calling things APs that don't do that then the term will have no meaning at all. Personally I think the world has more than enough meaningless buzzwords already.

Just because "we've always done it that way" is no excuse for anything, imo. Not trying to start a big argument, just voicing my views.

As I have said quite clearly several times already; I'm not saying they shouldn't do something different. I'm saying that if they do something different then they shouldn't call it an Adventure Path.


glass.

 

[Arnwyn]

For me, my preferences would be:

- first and foremost, it must be easily insertable into my (FR) campaign. All the APs have been so far (yes, even AoW), and I continue to expect Dungeon mag to do so (as all its adventures have been easily portable). That would probably leave out wars, "clashing armies/countries", and politics. (Not that I don't like those types of adventures, but I'm unsure if Dungeon is the place for that - though I'd be happy to be proven wrong if the Dungeon staff can pull it off ingeniously and still make it easily insertable.)

- higher rather than lower levels. Low level adventures are over-represented; and higher level adventures are much harder to write (and there's a reason I'm paying for Dungeon). While I prefer the 1-20 level APs, I wouldn't complain if there were a 6-17 (7-18, etc) level AP. Not 1-12, though.

- other than that, I'm not picky. Outsiders, dragons, multiple BBEGs... it's all good to me.

 

[BlackMoria]

I would like to see an AP in which there is multiple villains working at cross purposes. The APs so far have featured principally one main foe and their sponsored groups. I would like to see an AP in which there is two or more main foes. And the main foes are not working together... in fact, the main foes opposed each other.

Of course, the party doesn't want to see any of the groups succeed at their agendas but the party cannot take on all the villains at once but must somehow play each group off against the other or ally with this or that group against the others. Of course, the various groups see the party as pawns, catspaws or fall guys and do exactly what the party is trying, use groups against others.

Could be a real fun AP as the party tries to figure out when they are 'playing' or 'being played'.

Concept as a example:

Chaos Cult wants to bring on the apolcaypse or the return of their Dark God and need the McGuffin of Power to do so......but

Domination Group wants to seize power. Opposes Chaos Cult since cult wants to end it all or total domination by evil god and domination group wants the pie for themselves. Wants McGuffin of Power to keep out of hands of cultists and destroy it ......but

Subsect within Domination Group is only going along for the ride. Wants the pie for themselves alone and McGuffin of Power is a important element in their plan. Doesn't what McGuffin destroyed and intends to betray the other domination group members at the right time....... but

McGuffin of Power is the legacy item of Good Group A. Without McGuffin, Good Group A cannot full implement their agenda. Problem is, agenda of this group favors one race or ethnic group or religion and is biased against all others.

So, groups are at cross purposes. Party may side with a particular group in principal or party's role is the preservation of the status quo (which means party may even oppose the good group whose agenda may not be desired by the majority)

Lots of potential if the groups and their agendas are properly setup. Lots of roleplaying and intrigue for those who want a combat lite AP and yet enough potential for carnage for those who like combat.

 

[schporto]

I think pleasing as many people as possible is a good idea.
Part I: Low level, learn of incomming invasion from Land A.
Part II: Mid level, Overthrow Land A, claim it as your own (end of AP for those who want it at ~12).
Part III: High level, Defend your new Land A from those who see you as evil usurpers. This could include covert missions, or defend the keep basically WAR!
Part IV: Epic level. The original ruler of Land A has come back. And he want's his castle back. (Or while you are busy with Part III, he returns and takes over).

And me - I'm in favor of dragons as the BBEG. Or maybe a group/council of dragons.
-cpd

 

[James Jacobs]

This thread is great!

As Erik mentioned earlier, we are inded in the very early stages of concepting what we want to do with AP4. My gut feeling is that we'll still run from 1st to 20th level, but that the focus will be more on the mid-level play. We originally weren't going to go with the demonic elements in AP3, but with Erik and I working on Fiendish Codex I at the time and with the positive reaction from everyone else involved at Paizo, we ended up going with demons anyway. But yeah, expect the fourth one to have less demons.

Eric Boyd's comments elsewhere explain why dragons and evil outsiders feature so prominently, but in a nutshell, it's about space. We don't have to reprint full stat blocks from creatures taken directly out of the Monster Manual, and after you hit about 14th level, about half of the available monsters are dragons or evil outsiders. When you subtract the good outsiders (which generally don't make good bad guys), the pool grows even smaller. If we were to, say, go with aberrations or fey or high-level humanoids, we'd have to print a LOT more stat blocks in the last 4–5 adventures, which when you account for the fact that these stat blocks take up SO much room, means that in order for those last adventures to provide enough encounters to take a party up a level, you'd have an adventure that gets into being 30,000 words or more. And since we only have 45,000 or so words to work with for adventures in an issue of Dungeon... well... the problem becomes pretty significant.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Would the idea of having the BB"E"G as a good organization or good being, even be considered? I think that would be cool if in the end you had to fight a group of Solars or Planetars or something like that. Plus it wouldn't be as predictable.

 

[blargney the second]

I really enjoyed the 3-part mini Eberron path, and would be happy with more of them. They're very easy to fit into a campaign!

-blarg

 

[Wik]

I like Erik's comments about the Elf/Orc war. It's old-school D&D, and the idea of throwing "prince Melf" into the mix - that's awesome. I'd totally jump on that - it'd give my brother a chance to play a Duskblade (old school D&D elf!), and that Dwarven Defender my friend's been thinking of playing.... geez, it'd be perfect.

I do like the idea of throwing in "mini-campaigns". I think, after Savage Tide is over, you guys should just spend a year or so playing with 3-part adventures, or even 6-part adventures (a 6 parter would be pretty cool, I think).

The idea of two BBEG who hate each other is kind of cool. It reminds me of the latter levels of Halo 1, where the Flood is one faction, the Covenant is another, and the Sentinels are a third; as you move through parts of the game, you can see these factions involved in a war with each other. I think, on a larger scale, that might be a cool idea for a game.

An example of that, going with fiends (since it seems EVERYONE loves the idea of outsiders in an AP), you could have the devils and demons in a war with one another (I believe it's called a.... blood war....? ). The PCs don't really care about who wins; they have their own goals, but to get to them, they have to deal with these warring factions.

Finally, as one last note - why not run an AP based around Carceri? I think a really cool AP could be built around the idea that the PCs start off as criminals who are sentenced to exile on Carceri (at first level, no less!). Then, they have to survive with the group they were exiled with- mostly thieves, orcs, and murderers. The whole point of the campaign is trying to escape Carceri.

Or, to take that idea a bit further.... the PCs start off in their city (Greyhawk!) where they are trying to fight some villain or another. They find that the villain has plans to destroy the city (Gadzooks!) and, along the way, get framed for a crime. They know the villain is responsible, but cannot prove it, and so are sent to Carceri (5th level or so). The next 10-12 levels are spent trying to get out of Carceri, dealing with nomadic tribes of good prisoners that have been stuck there forever, and all sorts of evil critters. THe last 3 levels consist of getting back into the city just before the villain enacts his evil plan, and trying to stop him.

Just an idea.

 

[Shade]

I'd love to see an AP that involved traveling to different worlds (not planes). Maybe via a Spelljammer vessel, or something akin to a Stargate. This would be a chance to showcase some of the non-extraplanar alien creatures, like the tsochari or the neogi.

Rather than a world-ending threat, the party is simply motivated by exploration. Along the way, they might accidentally trigger a potential world-ending event, as such exploration is wont to do.

 

[Shroomy]

I don't mind if Dungeon decided to use demons or evil outsiders as the main villains behind their next AP (and the apocalyptic, conspiracy-laden plots usually associated with them). So far, each AP has had what I think was a unique tone and feel that serves to really individualize them. A continuation of that trend is what I want to see.