How so?[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION], I think you're seeing things a little black-and-white.
I think if you'd start at the beginning you'd find that that is exactly what I've been saying all along. For example, go back to my first post on the thread:Some things (climbing a wall) have little or nothing to do with player capability in my game. It's a straight die roll if the outcome is uncertain. It relies only on your Strength(Athletics) score and the luck of the die. Some things, like figuring out how to disarm a complex trap may be a mix of player skill and PC abilities with the players figuring out what skill to apply where to ensure success. Other things, like resolving a mystery, or deciding whom to support in a political drama are primarily player challenges.
Or consider my second post:
When I wrote "Most challenges can't be neatly separated into challenges to player or to character, because they involve a combination of choices by the player (that don't involve dice rolling) and some amount of dice rolling (such as passive saving throws or damage that attacks a hit point buffer). So I wouldn't be too surprised when you gave more details, that we'd find that the answer to the question was, "A bit of both.""
What about the thesis I've been developing do you find to be too "black and white"?
Yes, I agree. But I think if you go and look at what I actually wrote, I said exactly the same thing. So far as I can tell from your post, you are advancing my position and arguing against the same positions I've held in the whole thread.You could stretch it and say that if your PC has a high athletics score that makes climbing the wall simple that it was the player who ultimately decided where to put ability scores and proficiencies but that's pretty tenuous connection to me.