What does it take for an RPG to die?

[Thomas Shey]

We still play this. A guy occasionally published stuff, and there is an internet group with some active members.

Its a notable contrast with Universe, which may not be quite dead but is a lot closer to it than DragonQuest. Of course the latter was far more popular than the former even when they both first came out.

 

[Ringtail]

In terms of video games, people tend of think of "Dead" as one that is difficult to find players for. This doesn't necessarily mean no players, but a once popular FPS game only having 50 active players, all holed up in 3 discord servers with private game servers you need a password to join, most people would call that a "dead game."

There are plenty of "Dead games" still for sale on Digital Storefronts, and you can always wrangle a few friends to play said old game with you (though to me this is more like Necromancy), but that doesn't make a community. I don't think RPGs are any different in this regard. If you can find a vibrant community relatively easily and quickly spin up a game, its alive. A group of friends cracking an open an old game for Nostalgia doesn't make a community, and very small or localized communities still present a significant enough barrier that most people might just pass.

Factors like not receiving new content or being out of print entirely can certainly affect a game's community and make things harder, but if the fans are numerous and dedicated enough that presents no obstacle. For example the OSR community began making retroclones post-OGL as a way to get around out of print titles in an era before widepsread PDF availability.

 

[cranberry]

It takes a lack of sales which is driven by sustained interest.

You may have a great launch/successful Kickstarter, but if you can't keep the customer engaged or bring in new customers, it's likely to peter out.

 

[Autumnal]

I think GURPS falls in that category too, although I'll concede they've fallen behind as they've tailed back on new material and stopped chasing licenses. Still a lot of good GURPS worldbooks out there, although many are a little (or a lot) dated, eg GURPS Humanx Commonwealth, which is well over a dozen books behind last I checked.

Good point. I should have included them.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

I definitely agree with the idea of multiple levels of "dead" - out of print is one, lack of online discussion community is another, etc. In the early days of the internet it seemed like every obscure game had some dedicated fan that set up a GeoCities page for it and posted up their house rules or characters. Nowadays it feels like what you see for those are near-empty subreddits. The existence of it confirms that someone cared enough at some point, but the lack of posts for the last few years indicates that interest has, uh, "dwindled", at least

Licensed games are definitely prone to this as mentioned above too since even the PDF's disappear. I loved Marvel Heroic but it didn't last long enough to generate a big fanbase and it's tricky to find the materials now if you did not acquire them when it was new. The d20 versions of Star Wars are in a similar boat. James Bond too, which is a shame.

Lack of popularity also accelerates the decline. It's unlikely any version of D&D will ever just completely disappear. In contrast several people have mentioned Lords of Creation which I bought new and loved and have run a few times over the decades but it was never popular and even players of a similar ...vintage ... may not have heard of it. Second example: Secret of Zir'an. Came out 20 years ago and disappeared almost instantly. You can still buy the PDF in this case but you'd have to know it existed to go do that.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

In contrast several people have mentioned Lords of Creation which I bought new and loved and have run a few times over the decades but it was never popular and even players of a similar ...vintage ... may not have heard of it.

See, I get yelled at whenever I use the AvHill RPGs as examples of dead games. The Powers & Perils guys are downright angry about the subject.

LoC's definitely got a small fan community to this day. Got panned something fierce when it came out but it's grown cult following, I think largely on the strength of one of the most gonzo "monster manuals" ever made. Me, I get a kick out of how they stealth-published an obvious knockoff of the setting of Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy series without anyone saying a word.

Good blog review here, and the comments have this memorable image from Steve Jackson's brutal review issue of their new (at the time) RPGs:

Man, Steve could be mean sometimes. You'd think Howard Thompson was working over at AvHill or something. Nothing like old gaming drama.

 

[Saracenus]

Aftermath
Space Opera

 

[Thomas Shey]

Aftermath
Space Opera

You could make an argument for that for all the FGU produced games. I'm not sure entirely how true it is, however.

 

[aramis erak]

You could make an argument for that for all the FGU produced games. I'm not sure entirely how true it is, however.

Starships and Spacemen had a revival going, then the 2e switched mechanics, and the community other than the echo-chamber of the new publisher ignored the 2nd ed. And even that echo-chamber died off.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Starships and Spacemen had a revival going, then the 2e switched mechanics, and the community other than the echo-chamber of the new publisher ignored the 2nd ed. And even that echo-chamber died off.

Yeah, I picked that up and was underwhelmed. I mean, its fishing in a design zone not likely to suit me, but I've even seen other games in that zone that seemed better.