What doesn't belong in the "core"

[enrious]

That said, and getting back on point, I don't see anything I disagree with the OP's initial post. But I also am not going to say "I'll never pick it up" if these things don't (or do) come to pass when [EDIT] not "when", until [/edit] we have an actual edition on the shelves.

Let me tell you my perspective on this.

In my current campaign, I've tossed out half-elves and half-orcs. I've ditched most attacks of opportunity and the feats that relate to them. Somewhere in a wizard's workshop there's a warforged tooling around. Psionics are overwhelmingly found in a single nation's "casters" - in part because they don't have clerics.

No game core would satisfy me, either by inclusion or exclusion, thus I'm not as focused on what the core contains as what the core accomplishes.

 

[Mallus]

I'm all for unity, but let's not assume the world stopped in 1977.

More importantly, let's not inaccurately describe the D&D world circa 1977.

Arduin. Blackmoor. The Wilderlands of High Fantasy. Temple of the Frog. Even Greyhawk.

It's perfectly fine not to like all the wacky stuff in D&D, but it's always been there, and I'm not sure how you could have missed all of it.

 

[Wormwood]

It is the teleportation that rubs people the wrong way...

And it's the teleportation that fans love.

 

[SKyOdin]

Making a decision on what should be in the core based on what people don't want in the game is pointless; it would only lead to disunity. The contents of the core should be determined by what people want. WotC needs to take a look at the stuff people most want and try their best to squeeze as much of that as they can considering space and practical limitations. Monte Cook himself said in an article that even if only 10% of the player base really wants gnomes in D&D, that was big enough of a set of players that it can affect one out of every two D&D groups. Trying to give people the things they want to have is far more constructive than trying to appease what people don't want in the new edition, even if it is only a minority that wants the thing.

 

[Wormwood]

It's perfectly fine not to like all the wacky stuff in D&D, but it's always been there, and I'm not sure how you could have missed all of it.

Excellent point, and I apologize if I came off as dismissive.

From what I understand, you could slot devil-men and alchemy-robots into Dave Arneson's campaign without missing a beat. I was (poorly) expressing my desire for open-mindedness when it came to the concept of 'core'.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

And it's the teleportation that fans love.

Actually I don´t mind Eladrin teleporting from level 1. But the number of teleporting powers in 4e is too much. So I am a bit concerned about that.
Otherwise, as I said: the eladrin/elf distinction was one of the best things that could happen to elves.

 

[ferratus]

If I'm a 1st level elven mage, you better believe I love teleporting. As a DM trying to keep things consistent with the standard level of D&D technology and assumptions, not so much.

 

[Mallus]

Excellent point, and I apologize if I came off as dismissive.

You didn't come off as dismissive at all .

From what I understand, you could slot devil-men and alchemy-robots into Dave Arneson's campaign without missing a beat.

I've been reading through my old AD&D material recently --probably because I'm running it -- and there's just so much wonderfully quirky stuff I'd forgotten.

Looking up lycanthropes in the MM --wererwolves, werarats, weretigers, oh my!-- I stumbled across the giant lynx... who are "very intelligent" and speak their own language (the illustration is priceless). I immediately added a mysterious-yet-chatty giant lyxn --Loquasitous Lynx-- to the campaign. He was introduced shouting, "Holy crap, a talking wolf!" as a PC encountered a werewolf.

Need I say anything about the pages of dinosaurs?

Paging through "Slave Pits of the Undercity", I was shocked by all the ant-people. How could I have forgotten the ant-people?

So much delightful weirdness in that edition.

 

[rounser]

I think some of you are missing the point. I'm not saying D&D as a whole shouldn't have all manner of wacky races and classes available, but to those of you talking about Arduin, what say we put Flying Sharks in the 5E core as a race?

FR, GH, DL etc. now get Arduin Flying Sharks as a common feature, as do all your home-brews unless you explicitly ban the things. They begin to crop up everywhere in the PHB artwork. They get retconned into Dragonlance Chronicles when that gets re-released, and float around through Waterdeep and Greyhawk. Flying shark NPCs feature in adventures for PCs to talk to.* Ironically, Arduin itself begins to feel less special a world because one of it's unique features is now overexposed.

OR...

We could put it in a supplement, for those worlds where you simply gotta have a flying shark as a playable PC race.

Hmm.

By the way, to clarify another misunderstanding, the dealbreaker for me was a bad selection of races and classes in the 4E core, not silly weapons, which are indeed much easier to remove (even if I still don't think they belong in the core, ideally). For me, it's simply much easier to pick up an earlier edition than fight whatever 5E wants to be, in this respect, and I doubt anything mechanical it brings to the table will compensate for aesthetic problems with the core, if that ball is fumbled again.

*: Yes, I'm aware that Arduin flying sharks are as savage as normal sharks and do not speak. I'm citing a hypothetical PC race flying shark that hangs around in taverns and chats, and is somehow socially acceptable, just like 4E's clearly monstrous dragonborn.

 

[steeldragons]

You didn't come off as dismissive at all .

I've been reading through my old AD&D material recently --probably because I'm running it -- and there's just so much wonderfully quirky stuff I'd forgotten.

I do run it. Albeit, homebrewed and such, but yes. Almost everytime I go back to the books, I find something I had completely forgotten!

Quick works, in sooo many different ways.

-- I stumbled across the giant lynx... who are "very intelligent" and speak their own language (the illustration is priceless). I immediately added a mysterious-yet-chatty giant lyxn --Loquasitous Lynx-- to the campaign. He was introduced shouting, "Holy crap, a talking wolf!" as a PC encountered a werewolf.

lmao. Yes, the talking lynxes were one of those things I forgot.

I used one a while back...and by a while I mean years.

Need I say anything about the pages of dinosaurs?

Paging through "Slave Pits of the Undercity", I was shocked by all the ant-people. How could I forgotten the ant-people?

Aspis...the term you're looking for is "aspis". Not an attractive name, I'll grant you. But that's what they were called. Can't see myself ever using them again, but yeah, fun stuff!

So much delightful weirdness in that edition.

Yup and yup.
--SD