D&D 5E What Don't You Like About Dungeons?

[rmcoen]

Honestly, I've always had an issue with "Dungeons" and "dragons".... dungeons are not a natural habitat of dragons! Even the one I just described a couple posts ago isn't a dragon, it's a dragon skeleton - the (now-ruined) castle was built on top of this discovery because they found a dragon skeleton (and other things unique to my campaign Story). So much "suspension of disbelief" is required to handle a lot of the monsters found in a Dungeon -- my disbelief can't stretch enough to put a dragon down there!

 

[iserith]

Honestly, I've always had an issue with "Dungeons" and "dragons".... dungeons are not a natural habitat of dragons! Even the one I just described a couple posts ago isn't a dragon, it's a dragon skeleton - the (now-ruined) castle was built on top of this discovery because they found a dragon skeleton (and other things unique to my campaign Story). So much "suspension of disbelief" is required to handle a lot of the monsters found in a Dungeon -- my disbelief can't stretch enough to put a dragon down there!

Dragons aren't natural creatures and it's a game based on make-believe. Dragons also appear in both the Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury, two pretty good dungeons from D&D 3e that was updated to D&D 5e. How about a white dragon in a series of glacial ice caves and ruins from a previous civilization now frozen over? A red dragon in Dr. Inferno's volcano laboratory?

 

[Clint_L]

Also, the game is called "Dungeons and Dragons," not "Dragons in Dungeons." Don't put your dragons in dungeons when it doesn't make sense. I would generally advise against it, unless there is a vast space; dragons kind of suck when they can't get airborne. Due respect to Themberchaud.

 

[gorice]

What I don't like about dungeons is that many of them are just set dressing, not proper locations to explore. I don't think many dungeons I see these days are actually dungeons, functionally. For example, I don't think you can have a 'five-room dungeon', because there are no meaningful decisions to be made regarding exploration in a mere five rooms. Even some larger dungeons are just more-or-less linear strings of set-piece encounters.

A true dungeon is big enough that you have to think about where to go next, and dangerous enough that you might consider turning back, or taking an alternate path to avoid a monster or hazard. 5e doesn't really support this kind of play.

 

[rmcoen]

Dragons aren't natural creatures and it's a game based on make-believe. Dragons also appear in both the Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury, two pretty good dungeons from D&D 3e that was updated to D&D 5e. How about a white dragon in a series of glacial ice caves and ruins from a previous civilization now frozen over? A red dragon in Dr. Inferno's volcano laboratory?

Absolutely. When we shift to my first point, defining a "dungeon" as an "area with a set of related encounters/locations", then yes, absolutely, dragons can fit into that. When "dungeon" is "a series of stone corridors, with rooms of varying sizes", which is generally also not realistically providing access to food (or bathrooms)"... then no!

 

[iserith]

What I don't like about dungeons is that many of them are just set dressing, not proper locations to explore. I don't think many dungeons I see these days are actually dungeons, functionally. For example, I don't think you can have a 'five-room dungeon', because there are no meaningful decisions to be made regarding exploration in a mere five rooms. Even some larger dungeons are just more-or-less linear strings of set-piece encounters.

A true dungeon is big enough that you have to think about where to go next, and dangerous enough that you might consider turning back, or taking an alternate path to avoid a monster or hazard. 5e doesn't really support this kind of play.

That has not been my experience. Some dials need to be adjusted on occasion to fit the experience you're going for (more survival horror or less), but D&D 5e does dungeons just fine. I find the rules actually work better, particularly around the 6-8 encounter workday in a dungeon environment. What do you think is lacking?

 

[rmcoen]

Here was my Dungeon from Monday's session:

Edit: map formatting was abysmal!

1 was the entry; an alternate concealed entry/exit in 7. 7 is actually a huge room. the path between 5 and 6 is broken (15' gap over a 45' fall to water). Room 3 is partially submerged, and has water tunnels to the surface and to another location. the paths between 1 & 4, and 2 & 5 are mostly blocked by roots hanging down almost to the floor.

1 is empty. 2 is empty, but slimy, and mushrooms; trail on wall leading to 3. 3 has two giant crocs in the water, and a piece of equipment leading to the other area. 4 has a threat, primed to grab anyone crawling under the vines in the passage. 5 has a handful of CR 2 fungus monsters. 6 has one violet fungus, some coins, a +1 sword that needs repair, and a minor puzzle to gain access to 7. 7 has a gelatinous cube, and more violet fungus in the corner. 8 has hostile terrain, the dragon skeleton, and oozes. 9 has a golem and some "special materials" as treasure.

The party entered at 1, went to 2, went to 3, killed the crocs, chose not to follow the underwater path, and went to 6. They solved the puzzle, went to 7, killed the cube, went to 8, figured out how to handle the hostile terrain, but retreated from the oozes. They tried to hack a path from 2 to 5, but got attacked by violet fungus tentacles (reach 10' under the hanging vines). "Screw this, I'm going home," and they left.

This "dungeon" had multiple potential access paths, differing terrain (water, acidic moss, bare stone and slimy stone), a couple puzzles (opening a portcullis, dealing with acidic moss), minor treasures and materials, and some Story/lore advancement, and of course, the "rescue the noble" quest (and political benefits of that). the party was 8th level, the biggest threats were pairs of CR 5 creatures. Should have been a 2 session activity (our sessions are short and... unfocused at times). Instead, it was one session, partially completed, and abandoned.


WHICH IS FINE (I keep reminding myself). The PCs made decisions, those decisions have consequences for good and ill. They got some money, a magic sword (actually, nonmagical +1, of special material), some XP, had some fun, and we moved on.

[I should be fair... bad luck resulted in the Rogue's death -- which was reversed with a revivify item -- so she was understandably leading the "let's leave!" parade!]

 

[gorice]

That has not been my experience. Some dials need to be adjusted on occasion to fit the experience you're going for (more survival horror or less), but D&D 5e does dungeons just fine. I find the rules actually work better, particularly around the 6-8 encounter workday in a dungeon environment. What do you think is lacking?

Mostly, workable procedures for stuff like random encounters, plus time and resource tracking. I also think the cheap and plentiful magic tends to undermine most challenges that aren't straight combat.

I've run dungeons in 5e, and it can be done, but it always felt like I was fighting the system.

 

[overgeeked]

Any dungeon that lasts more than 2-3 sessions is too long. They’re often too samey with heaps of rooms and encounters that are easily interchangeable and utterly forgettable. Combine those and you get incredibly boring games. That’s what I don’t like about them.

 

[Lord Shark]

I get intensely bored, both as a DM and a player, by the constant stream of repetitive actions you get in a dungeon: listening at doors, checking for traps, looking for secret doors. It slows play to a, well, crawl.