D&D 5E What Don't You Like About Dungeons?

[TheSword]

I don’t like when they are chock full of arbitrary filler… or worse of all procedurally generated. Part of exploration for me is unraveling a mystery - and it needs to be more involved than what’s on the other side of that door.

I’m not averse to the occasional red herring or spammer in the works. Or even multiple thread lines only tangentially related to the main plot… but I do want things to tie together. Good dungeons reveal information and clues through the rooms you explore that give hints and warnings to the savvy and reveal a wider truth.

I also don’t like when dungeons become hack and slash. I want conversations, factions, back and forth deals, double crosses and bargains. Good dungeons can include these but many don’t.

 

[Clint_L]

A true dungeon is big enough that you have to think about where to go next, and dangerous enough that you might consider turning back, or taking an alternate path to avoid a monster or hazard. 5e doesn't really support this kind of play.

Totally disagree with that last statement. I have had no problem running large dungeons in 5e. I don't even really understand the claim - what about 5e specifically would make it hard to have to think about where to go next, or turning back, or taking an alternate path to avoid a monster or hazard? Those are all elements of dungeon design that are edition agnostic.

 

[nevin]

So you've decided to play this game called Dungeons & Dragons. But, perhaps after some experience with the game, you've decided you don't like dungeons. I feel like I see this a lot in various online discussions and I find it unusual to take a stance against the very thing the game was seemingly designed around and still continue playing it.

While the game can feature adventure locations and situations that aren't or don't involve dungeons, what is it specifically about dungeons that you don't like? When you hear that it's time for a "dungeon crawl," what sort of negative things does that conjure in your mind? If you're a DM, why do you avoid running dungeons in your own games?

If you do like dungeons (or at least like them as much as other adventure locations), what do you like about them? How do you approach them as a player? If you're a DM, what kind of resources do you use to help you design and run them effectively?

(I'm making this a D&D 5e thread because that is the most recent and arguably popular version of the game. If you're going to talk about other editions or even other games, please say so explicitly so as to mitigate misunderstandings as to rules or the like.)

My biggest problem with most dungeons is why the hell are they there. The other thing I hate about dungeons is people that run nothing but dungeons. It gets so boring. Check the door, check for traps listen for monsters, do we set of the trap or leave it there. Now as an occasional go down into the dark place and find the missing rod of zagyg sure. If that's all the game is ever going to be. NOPE>

 

[rmcoen]

My biggest problem with most dungeons is why the hell are they there. NOPE>

Nevin, I'm totally with you here. This is the key thought that drives all my designs/maps/"dungeons". If it's a true dungeon - why was this underground prison built, and why here? (secret research base around the dragon skeleton, with a fort to protect the researchers) If it's a tower in the middle of nowhere, why was it built way out here? (because this is where the planar rift was discovered) If it's a converted mine, what were the miners mining? And why was it converted to [insert thing here]? And so on.

 

[nevin]

"5e doesn't really support this kind of play."


Since when? Nothing in 5e stops that kind of play.

 

[Vaalingrade]

"5e doesn't really support this kind of play."


Since when? Nothing in 5e stops that kind of play.

Not preventing isn't the same as supporting.

Don't believe me? Ask your DM.

 

[iserith]

Mostly, workable procedures for stuff like random encounters, plus time and resource tracking. I also think the cheap and plentiful magic tends to undermine most challenges that aren't straight combat.

I've run dungeons in 5e, and it can be done, but it always felt like I was fighting the system.

Random encounters are definitely covered in the DMG. Time is somewhat lacking in rules depth, but only to the extent that they leave it to the DM to decide what is important to them there. (I run exploration in 10 minute turns, for example.) For spells, it's as easy as removing the ones that obviate the sort of challenges you'd rather the players deal with in some other way.

I very rarely run D&D 5e "as is" for any adventure, including dungeons, since I like to make adjustments to support the theme or setting. So I have the same expectation when running dungeons. If I want it to be more old school survival horror, for example, I'm going to turn on Variant Encumbrance, tie eating rations to rests, take away spells that create light, and so on. A system that purports to be anything to everybody will always require some modification to get it where it needs to be for a specific game in my view.

 

[nevin]

I still don't see it and I'm a forever DM. Supports it just fine. Players have to manage resources instead of running back out every encounter. Game works fine as long as DM knows what they are doing. Now if you are saying new DM's reading the junk WOTC gives them these days might not be able to run it effectively or they might kill thier party trying to throw too many monsters at them. That's been an issue in every single version.

 

[iserith]

My biggest problem with most dungeons is why the hell are they there. The other thing I hate about dungeons is people that run nothing but dungeons. It gets so boring. Check the door, check for traps listen for monsters, do we set of the trap or leave it there. Now as an occasional go down into the dark place and find the missing rod of zagyg sure. If that's all the game is ever going to be. NOPE>

Nevin, I'm totally with you here. This is the key thought that drives all my designs/maps/"dungeons". If it's a true dungeon - why was this underground prison built, and why here? (secret research base around the dragon skeleton, with a fort to protect the researchers) If it's a tower in the middle of nowhere, why was it built way out here? (because this is where the planar rift was discovered) If it's a converted mine, what were the miners mining? And why was it converted to [insert thing here]? And so on.

Where I find these sorts of concerns curious is that in a game based on make-believe, we can just make up how the dungeon got there and what it was once used for (or anything else about it), so isn't this sort of admitting to a failure of imagination?

 

[Bawylie]

Where I find these sorts of concerns curious is that in a game based on make-believe, we can just make up how the dungeon got there and what it was once used for (or anything else about it), so isn't this sort of admitting to a failure of imagination?

could also be failure of the source material to communicate adequately. Or failure of the source material to present that info in-game adequately. I suppose it depends a good deal on where you sit. DM, player, writer, artist.