Tom Cashel
First Post
Spatula said:
Where can I find this rule? I've been scouring the SRD, no dice.
What (else) got the shaft in 3E?
- Thread starter Lord Vangarel
- Start date
Where can I find this rule? I've been scouring the SRD, no dice.
Lucius Foxhound
First Post
Tom Cashel said:
I think what he meant, Tom, is that generalists Wizards choose any two spells they'd like when they level. Specialists must choose 1 spell from their specialized school (and the other can be any other spell).
Tom Cashel
First Post
Oh.
Well, that's not such a disadvantage, now is it?
Well, that's not such a disadvantage, now is it?
Sixchan
First Post
Lucius Foxhound said:
I know. But the party doesn't have a sorceror, and we're really just playing around with ideas right now to see what works. A few weeks ago I had the party battle 5 machine-gun wielding Goblins.
We haven't gamed in a long time, so we're easing ourselves back in.
Depends. You get 4 free spells per spell level (aside from 0 and 1st level spells). If you only want one of your specialty school's spell for a particular level, tough - you have to learn at least two of them. Of course you can learn extra spells but it gets expensive - 200 gp per spell level to add a spell to your spellbook.Tom Cashel said:
This isn't a problem for all specialtists - it depends on how many spells from your school are available for each level and how useful they are.
Last edited:
Epametheus
First Post
Let's see here...
1) Ogres? Shafted? Getting critted by an ogre amounts to instant death for most PCs that are not at least 4th level or so, especially if it happens with a huge longspear. If anything, I'd say they're vastly more dangerous than they were in 2nd Ed.
2) Agreed on the monks. I've never seen a monk that didn't have his rear handed back to him on a platter.
3) Also agreed on normal classes vs. prestige classes -- only the paladin, druid, and monk really reward sticking with them. Druids get plenty of cool abilities right from the druid class, and a paladin or monk who multies may actually seriously harm his own effectiveness -- most of the good monk stuff is high level, and most paladin abilities won't amount to squat if you don't stick with the class. Bard might also be a good class to not multi from, simply because of the distinct lack of bardic prestige classes that continue spell progression (with the notable exception of virtuoso, which causes its own problems because it's flat-out a superior version of the bard).
As for something that got the shaft... Generic Vrocks. Mass Charm is just about the only thing they have going for them, but for a CR 13 monster they impose pathetically low save DCs. Actually, Mass Charm is probably the whole reason they're rated as CR 13; they'd probably an 8 or a 9 without it.
1) Ogres? Shafted? Getting critted by an ogre amounts to instant death for most PCs that are not at least 4th level or so, especially if it happens with a huge longspear. If anything, I'd say they're vastly more dangerous than they were in 2nd Ed.
2) Agreed on the monks. I've never seen a monk that didn't have his rear handed back to him on a platter.
3) Also agreed on normal classes vs. prestige classes -- only the paladin, druid, and monk really reward sticking with them. Druids get plenty of cool abilities right from the druid class, and a paladin or monk who multies may actually seriously harm his own effectiveness -- most of the good monk stuff is high level, and most paladin abilities won't amount to squat if you don't stick with the class. Bard might also be a good class to not multi from, simply because of the distinct lack of bardic prestige classes that continue spell progression (with the notable exception of virtuoso, which causes its own problems because it's flat-out a superior version of the bard).
As for something that got the shaft... Generic Vrocks. Mass Charm is just about the only thing they have going for them, but for a CR 13 monster they impose pathetically low save DCs. Actually, Mass Charm is probably the whole reason they're rated as CR 13; they'd probably an 8 or a 9 without it.
Giants.
Actually it's more like they screwed them up.
Look in the 3rd edition Monster Manual:
Ogre
"Adult ogres stand 9 to 10 feet tall and weigh 300 to 350 pounds." average hp = 26
Hill Giant
"Adults are about 10 1/2 feet tall and weigh about 1,100 pounds."
average hp = 102
Okay... So, hill giants are about 6 inches taller but weigh 800 more pounds and have 76 more hit points... Sure...
Then, in the 3rd edition Monster Manual 2, the giants grow several times their size, hit dice, etc. Okay... Yeah, I know the designers wanted really big giants, but they should have thought of that earlier in the original Monster Manual. Basically, the main giants in 3rd edition are only slightly taller than ogres, have some more hit points, but really aren't that especially "giant" to me.
Actually it's more like they screwed them up.
Look in the 3rd edition Monster Manual:
Ogre
"Adult ogres stand 9 to 10 feet tall and weigh 300 to 350 pounds." average hp = 26
Hill Giant
"Adults are about 10 1/2 feet tall and weigh about 1,100 pounds."
average hp = 102
Okay... So, hill giants are about 6 inches taller but weigh 800 more pounds and have 76 more hit points... Sure...
Then, in the 3rd edition Monster Manual 2, the giants grow several times their size, hit dice, etc. Okay... Yeah, I know the designers wanted really big giants, but they should have thought of that earlier in the original Monster Manual. Basically, the main giants in 3rd edition are only slightly taller than ogres, have some more hit points, but really aren't that especially "giant" to me.
Jay Lofstead
First Post
One thing in a monk's favor is the spell resistance they gain at 13th level. That makes them quite a bit more powerful. I personally find the monk pretty well balanced. They are a bit limited, but do get some nice abilities (such as the spell resistance and the ability to heal themselves).
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
A specialist wizard will:
Find himself restricted from making a large number of magic items
Find himself restricted when it comes to picking new spells
Find himself restricted when it comes to memorising spells
In exchange for:
1 extra spell per level. That's a grand total of 9 extra spells per day if he hits 9th level spells. Typically that's about 1/4 more spells a day.
I personally don't see it as being worth it. Other people can't see it ever NOT being worth it.
I'd say that makes it middle-of-the-road worth it, or balanced in other words.
The fact that boccobs blessed book has been ruled to accept spells written into it for no money at all seems to indicate that the designers fouled up when it came to scribing costs. And don't think that removing scribing costs makes gaining new spells free - scrolls still cost money, and spellbooks should be rare. In a game with a sorceror and a wizard, the sorceror consistently outperformed the wizard in combat, and the wizard consistently outperformed the sorceror outside of combat, which I think is the intended division. A 'utility' wizard is far more useful to his party than an attack wizard.
Find himself restricted from making a large number of magic items
Find himself restricted when it comes to picking new spells
Find himself restricted when it comes to memorising spells
In exchange for:
1 extra spell per level. That's a grand total of 9 extra spells per day if he hits 9th level spells. Typically that's about 1/4 more spells a day.
I personally don't see it as being worth it. Other people can't see it ever NOT being worth it.
I'd say that makes it middle-of-the-road worth it, or balanced in other words.
The fact that boccobs blessed book has been ruled to accept spells written into it for no money at all seems to indicate that the designers fouled up when it came to scribing costs. And don't think that removing scribing costs makes gaining new spells free - scrolls still cost money, and spellbooks should be rare. In a game with a sorceror and a wizard, the sorceror consistently outperformed the wizard in combat, and the wizard consistently outperformed the sorceror outside of combat, which I think is the intended division. A 'utility' wizard is far more useful to his party than an attack wizard.
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