GOO are usually stolen power. The penalty is not being the patron's minion but the psychological damage gained from stealing that power.
That's why it really can't be codified. Each patron is a different type of relationship.
D&D General What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?
- Thread starter Hexmage-EN
- Start date
That's why it really can't be codified. Each patron is a different type of relationship.
Shadowedeyes
Adventurer
If the warlock class can't handle fantasy Ghost Rider, then it's not terribly great.
For the most part, in my games, I assume a character's power was granted to the character and is not easily taken away. Besides being more fun in general, it also explains why deities, demons and archfey don't just hand out power to every next person they run into. They have to be reasonably sure it's a good choice.
Plus you know, the high priest is secretly evil trope is a thing.
For the most part, in my games, I assume a character's power was granted to the character and is not easily taken away. Besides being more fun in general, it also explains why deities, demons and archfey don't just hand out power to every next person they run into. They have to be reasonably sure it's a good choice.
Plus you know, the high priest is secretly evil trope is a thing.
Baron Opal II
Hero
I would say it's pretty campaign dependent, too. For me,
Paladins - Meant to be the Big Damn Hero protecting innocents and smiting bad guys. Not tied to the Patrons* or Powers, but gaining their abilities through mysterious means. There is only one oath, and it boils down to Protect Innocents, Nab the bad guy, Protect friends, Protect yourself, in that order. Violating the oath is pretty catastrophic, and frankly meant to be hard to do accidentaly, but atonement is possible.
Clerics - The cleric chose to surrender themselves to the Patrons, and the Patrons accepted and bestowed Their grace upon them. Given the worship of the Patrons is a pantheon, Their representative would have to do something really bad to anger all of them. What would likely happen is certain thematically appropriate spells would be denied or capped until such a grievous sin was atoned for. Even so, they would retain the spells that they had but when cast they would be gone. That said, the few things that would have all the Patrons turn Their back on the cleric would probably mean that the cleric is now getting their power from a demon lord or something. Depending on the infraction, entities may be sent to directly punish the character at the next holy day, and if they survive all is forgiven.
Druids - They are the main mediators between the spiritual and physical worlds. They only thing they could do is permanently alienate a collection of spirits or ancestors. That would prevent them from casting the specific spells that those spirits had granted them. Also make that area of the spirit plane a tad bit more hazardous to travel through.
Warlocks - The power is a trade, tit for tat. If the relationship is broken, then you aren't getting anything more from them. You will need a new patron to develop further levels in the class. Or, maybe the relationship can be repaired if you're clever. Infernals do appreciate cunning, after all. Depending on the patron there may be some entities sent to "repossess" the powers granted, depending on how vengeful they are.
Given that most of these classes possess a high wisdom, I do mention that the character is about to do something that could have significant consequences. I dislike the "gotchas" as well.
* "Patron" is a bit of a loaded word in my campaign. The "Patrons" are basically the gods of the campaign as opposed to "patrons" who are powerful supernatural entities who are willing to bargain with a mortal.
Paladins - Meant to be the Big Damn Hero protecting innocents and smiting bad guys. Not tied to the Patrons* or Powers, but gaining their abilities through mysterious means. There is only one oath, and it boils down to Protect Innocents, Nab the bad guy, Protect friends, Protect yourself, in that order. Violating the oath is pretty catastrophic, and frankly meant to be hard to do accidentaly, but atonement is possible.
Clerics - The cleric chose to surrender themselves to the Patrons, and the Patrons accepted and bestowed Their grace upon them. Given the worship of the Patrons is a pantheon, Their representative would have to do something really bad to anger all of them. What would likely happen is certain thematically appropriate spells would be denied or capped until such a grievous sin was atoned for. Even so, they would retain the spells that they had but when cast they would be gone. That said, the few things that would have all the Patrons turn Their back on the cleric would probably mean that the cleric is now getting their power from a demon lord or something. Depending on the infraction, entities may be sent to directly punish the character at the next holy day, and if they survive all is forgiven.
Druids - They are the main mediators between the spiritual and physical worlds. They only thing they could do is permanently alienate a collection of spirits or ancestors. That would prevent them from casting the specific spells that those spirits had granted them. Also make that area of the spirit plane a tad bit more hazardous to travel through.
Warlocks - The power is a trade, tit for tat. If the relationship is broken, then you aren't getting anything more from them. You will need a new patron to develop further levels in the class. Or, maybe the relationship can be repaired if you're clever. Infernals do appreciate cunning, after all. Depending on the patron there may be some entities sent to "repossess" the powers granted, depending on how vengeful they are.
Given that most of these classes possess a high wisdom, I do mention that the character is about to do something that could have significant consequences. I dislike the "gotchas" as well.
* "Patron" is a bit of a loaded word in my campaign. The "Patrons" are basically the gods of the campaign as opposed to "patrons" who are powerful supernatural entities who are willing to bargain with a mortal.
cbwjm
Seb-wejem
That's why for some pacts, I prefer a more occultist take where they delve into forbidden eldritch lore instead of the standard pact of the warlock. Essentially a wizard with the subclasses and spell list of the warlock.
GetInTheHole
Explorer
That's exactly my take on the GOO pact. It's a wizard, just with a weirder backstory.
toucanbuzz
No rule is inviolate
Cleric-Druid-Paladin: should depending on the nature of the deity and alignment. For some reason, I see evil gawds as being far less forgiving than good ones. On the other hand, if a Cleric of Tyr assists in burning down the orphanage to collect the insurance money, I don't see how, why, or WTF the gawd would continue to funnel holy energy through them. After all, the entire purpose of a Cleric is to further the deity's agenda, and in doing so, they get awesome cool powers that 99.99% of the flock don't. I also don't see the gawds acting like your 3rd grade teacher and giving the offender "time out" so they can ponder the error of their ways if the offense is grievous enough. If someone tried to burn down the classroom, that's expulsion time and a trip to JV hall, not "let's reward you with your regular powers so the game can go on."
As a DM, I figure I'd probably warn the player that what they're about to do is a big no-no with their deity. Normally I try to avoid telling a PC how to play their character, but Clerics are different. It's not about YOU. It's about the cause, the portfolio, the area of influence, whatever you want to call it. You've chosen this character because you're willing to accept the cause first, not your personal agenda. If you want lots of supernatural powers and your personal agenda, go play a wizard.
Warlock. I figure the Patron always has a master plan spanning eons. Unlike Cleric, the setup is the player has already given up something or done something to get the powers. There's little the PC could do that upsets the plan because the plan changes as the DM sees fit, and a single act by the PC may not matter or may actually be part of that long-term plan. So there's that.
As a DM, I figure I'd probably warn the player that what they're about to do is a big no-no with their deity. Normally I try to avoid telling a PC how to play their character, but Clerics are different. It's not about YOU. It's about the cause, the portfolio, the area of influence, whatever you want to call it. You've chosen this character because you're willing to accept the cause first, not your personal agenda. If you want lots of supernatural powers and your personal agenda, go play a wizard.
Warlock. I figure the Patron always has a master plan spanning eons. Unlike Cleric, the setup is the player has already given up something or done something to get the powers. There's little the PC could do that upsets the plan because the plan changes as the DM sees fit, and a single act by the PC may not matter or may actually be part of that long-term plan. So there's that.
Hexmage-EN
Legend
I just remembered Deathlocks are a thing, so I imagine one possible punishment for a Warlock is to become a Deathlock if they die.
Scribe
Legend
Oh for sure, I just mean as far as the rules actually define.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Whatever the player decides.
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