What happens to animals when their Int goes up?

[ChimericDream]

So let's say we're advancing an animal (or dire animal). If one were to increase a creature's intelligence to 3 or higher (due to increased hit dice), what happens? The animal creature type can't have an Int of 3 or more by definition, so does the creature become a Magical Beast? Does it keep the Animal type but simply gain the Augmented subtype? I'm curious to see what other people have done in this situation.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

You can't add to the int score of an animal by merely advancing its HD. You need some other sort of magical effect.

If you do increase the int to 3 or higher, the creature's type becomes magical beast.

 

[javcs]

You can't add to the int score of an animal by merely advancing its HD. You need some other sort of magical effect.

Source, please?

 

[Jack Simth]

You are unlikely to find a pure RAW answer to your question.

However, the Druid's Awaken spell, the Celestial/Fiendish templates, and the Phenric creature template (all of which put the critter to Int 3 or better) all have the animal become a magical beast. By extrapolation, when you do something to increase an animal's Int beyond 2, it becomes a magical beast. Extrapolation isn't always accurate to intent, however.

 

[Dross]

Source, please?

IDHMBIFOM, but

Only if a critter adds 1 to a stat after gaining the appropriate HD would it change (sans size change).

Otherwise the MM series has the setps of advancing animals. If you go through this process, I'm sure that nowhere does it say that the INT of the critter is raised. Other than the changes in size I don't think there is any stat change and these are usually the "physical" stats.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Source?

Unfortunately, it isn't direct as noted above. Advancing Monsters is not like advancing characters unless the monster is advanced "by character class" eg Orc, Goblin, Gnoll.

You cannot advance an animal's intelligence any more than you can an undead's con score or a vermin's intelligence score.

If you do - these creatures become magical beasts; there is clear precedence for it.

 

[Klaus]

Source, please?

From the SRD (emphasis mine):

Animal Traits: An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).
—Low-light vision.
—Alignment: Always neutral. Animals are not governed by a human sense of morality.
—Treasure: None. Animals never possess treasure.

If you add HD to an animal with an Int of 1, you can advance it to 2, but that's the limit of animal intelligence. You can't use the level-based increases to boost an animal beyond Int 2.

 

[javcs]

You cannot advance an animal's intelligence any more than you can an undead's con score or a vermin's intelligence score.

You cannot increase an undead's Con score or a vermin's Int score because they are --, they don't have a score. Animal's however, do have an Int score, therefore, it can change.

If you stick an Amulet of Health on an undead or a Headband of Intellect on a vermin, nothing happens, because there exists no score to increase. However, if you stick that Headband of Intellect on an animal, it's Int is increased by whatever amount as it possesses a score to be increased, what happens to it next?

If you do - these creatures become magical beasts; there is clear precedence for it.

At least we agree on something.

If you add HD to an animal with an Int of 1, you can advance it to 2, but that's the limit of animal intelligence. You can't use the level-based increases to boost an animal beyond Int 2.

Why not? What restricts the abilities that I could increase?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Despite the line "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal", it's possible to achieve it.

For example, before the change to Wildshape to base it off Alternate Form, a druid explicitly gained the Animal type while retaining his own Intelligence score. Even after those changes, the same effect occurs when using a Polymorph spell.

A simple question is "What happens when you cast Fox's Cunning on a dog?"

Would this result in a change in Type? I see no reason it should. I could see a rules-based justification for it granting a +4 enhancement bonus to Int (maximum 2), but not for changing the creature's Type.

My own inclination would be to let the spell result in an Animal with an Int of 5 or 6; I would not, however, allow Animal hit dice to increase Int above 2, just like Klaus.

Why not? What restricts the abilities that I could increase?

To me, "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal" covers the question of "Can I, by virtue of being an Animal (ie, through gaining more hit dice of the Animal type) increase my Intelligence score to 3 or higher?"

If you're getting a +1 to an ability score by advancing in the Animal Type, that ability score increase is beholden to the rules of the Animal Type.

-Hyp.

 

[javcs]

The last bit rules or personal sense of orderliness?NVM, Hyp edited in his answer.
Just for the record, I wouldn't bother with trying to advance an animal's Int past 2, and probably I'd just laugh at a player who tried to. Much more worthwhile to just put HD-based stat boosts into physical stats or improving Wis, and then get a druid to Awaken the animal.

The real question is, why would you bother trying to advance an animal's Int score past 2?