What happens to OGC which violates OGL?

Staffan said:
(d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity.

OK, I'm neither a lawyer nor a native speaker of English but the way I read it, I get:
OGC means the game mechanic and
  • includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and
  • is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor and
  • means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity.
The way Clark reads it, it would appear to be more like:
OGC means the game mechanic and
  • includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and
  • any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor and
  • means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity.
Personally, I think that it could be read either way. In order for it to only be what Clark says, it should probably say "does not embody the Product Identity or is an enhancement over the prior art".

I'm also not a native english speaker, grammar ain't my cup of tea either, but "and is an enhancement over the prior art" clearly refers to the first part of the sentence, the second "and" starts a new argument. Maybe someone with the proper grammar zkillz could disect the entire big friking sentence and use the proper grammar designations (i can't even remember those ;-).
 

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Orcus said:
I think this is a tough question with very reasonable arguments on both sides.

Those of you who know me know that I dont usually sit on the fence. I am pretty opinionated and definately not afraid to express them. I hope the fact that I am on the fence on this tells you something.
I think it's a fair stance on your part, Clark. Part of the problem is that the wording of the license - specifically the lack of punctuation, makes certain things unclear. While I don't expect anyone to be convinced by my definition, here is how I personally (an admitted non-lawyer) "parse" the OGL to arrive at my conclusion.

(d)"Open Game Content" means
*the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art
*and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor,
*and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law,
*but specifically excludes Product Identity.
I parse it this way because I believe that this is meant to be a list of things, of which any can be true, not of which all must be true (given the "any additional content" clause - if all of the above must be satisfied, the word "additional" is unneeded.

I think the second "bullet point" is pretty easy to understand... if the creator says it's OGC, it's OGC.

The third "bullet point" is somewhat problematic, but not too bad. The first part of the phrase is slightly more problematic, having given rise to the "if you don't make an OGC designation, the entire work becomes OGC," but we'll leave that aside for now. Since we're dealing with works that DO have OGC designations, that doesn't particularly matter. Tangentially, this seems to indicate that the common interpretation of the OGL as having three kinds of content: (1) OGC, (2) PI, and (3) Neither (or "closed" content) may not be correct - one COULD read this phrase as stating that all portions of a work is automatically OGC unless specifically closed as PI- though I think common use of - and interpretation by those in the industry - of a three-fold system of content, rather than a binary one (OGC/PI) probably discounts that. The second part of the phrase is clearer - anything that is a translation or derivative work of OGC under copyright law is Open Game Content. Of course, that's only as clear as copyright law itself is - and there is some wiggle room in copyright law as to exactly what constitutes a derivative work! ;)

The fourth "bullet point" is also clear. If something is PI, it is not OGC. End of story (but see below).

The first "bullet point" is the one that seems to be throwing us for a loop. "The game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art" suggests that game mechanics are automatically Open Game Content... but that there is an exception to that rule... that "such content {as does} embody the PI and is an enhancement over the prior art" may be removed from being OGC. I read that as a "both must be true" statement - the content must be both an enhancement and must embody the Product Identity.

Now, I have said elsewhere that I have a tough time conceiving of rules that "embody" Product Identity... and I still do, though the "sanity check" rules of CoC do seem to qualify. I do not personally equate "embodying" PI to "being" PI. In other words, I'm not convinced you can designate rules as PI - you can only remove them to "closed content" and even then only if they "embody" other PI. I think that if rules were allowed to become Product Identity, they would have just said so, rather than using the "embody" term.

The crux, to me, comes into play when we mix bullet points one and three... what happens if you have a "derivative work" (must be Open) that embodies the Product Identity (may be not Open)? Before reading Clark's posts, I would have said, "it's derivative, it must be Open." Now, I'm not quite so sure. Now, I think I would say, "all rules that fit the system will by definition be derivative, so they must have put the embodying PI exclusion in there for a reason - in other words, the embodying PI exclusion must trump the derivative inclusion in the case of rules because if it did not there would be no point in putting the embodying PI exclusion into the license in the first instance."

Having gone through that exercise, I now need to look at what PI is so I can see exactly what the two exclusions... (1) anything that is PI is not OGC, and (2) any game mechanic (shorthand for the whole phrase) that embodies PI and is an enhancement over prior art is not OGC.

I then parse the PI definition... fortunately, this is a much better-defined list of "things" as lists go, since it is commafied and "semicoloned" - I would suggest that each "semicolon" represents a break between lists of similar items, and each comma is simply used to denote different elements on the same list.
(e) "Product Identity" means
*product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress;
*artifacts;
*creatures
*characters;
*stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations;
*names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs;
*and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity,
*and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content;

Now I break these down one by one... the first one ("product {names} and product line names" etc.) is pretty straightforward... the title of a book or line may be PI - basically, the "company stuff" completely divorced from the game material may be PI.

Some may think "artifacts" is limited to a D&D-esque artifact (i.e., magical item of great power) but I think it's not unreasonable to assume the "Common Usage" of the term - any item of antiquity or thereabouts - is more appropriate. In other words, unique physical objects that have some sort of historical (or mythological / fantasy historical) significance. Regardless, it's not really a sticking point most of the time.

The next item, "creatures characters;" should, I suggest, be read as two separate items and considered a typo. No reason to split hairs here. What a creature is - any living thing, usually one that can move or think on its own (distinguished from grass or trees or other plant life) is pretty straightforward, as is a "character" (a creature with a name or nickname or that has some sort of special significance in the story/work). More or less straightforward.

The next bullet point deals, IMO, with the "non game-mechanical stuff" included in a work - stories, likenesses, et al. In other words, the part of an RPG book that does NOT read like a technical manual. ;) Of note is the term "thematic elements" (more on this in a moment).

The next point... "names and descriptions of..." etc. is also straightforward. If you give pretty much anything a name, the name can be PI (even if the rest of the item cannot). In this one instance, I do not parse a semicolon as a new list (between "special abilities" and "places") since it is clearly impossible to PI a place or location - only the name and description of that place or location can be meaningfully PI'd (since the location itself usually does not actually exist). Furthermore, I look down the list at "magical or supernatural abilities or effects" and note that since "spells" are the quintessential example thereof, and only the "names and descriptions" of spells - but not the associated game mechanics - may be declared as PI, it seems reasonable that for a consistent reading of the license, the "only name and description" clause should continue to apply to magical abilities or effects. Furthermore, since logos and symbols themselves have already been provided for being declared as PI in the previous bullet point, it stands to reason that this is trying to add something different to the list... the "name" of a logo is different from the "logo" itself and seems to be the only reading that gives two different items, rather than one redundant one. The same applies to "characters" and "creatures" - already allowed for elsewhere, the only reason for including them here is if you are trying to include the NAME as a PI-able item, not the creature/character itself.

Of note is that someone who does interpret the semicolon in the above as starting a new list could argue that it is possible to PI not just the name of, but an entire magical ability (game mechanics, too). However, for reasons above, I reject this reading, based on the fact that it generates a ton of redundancy of definition and flies in the face of previous sections... it allows the same text to be "un PI-able" or "definitely PI-able" depending on whether or not the text is referred to as a "spell" or as a "magical ability" (I would contend that "spell" being a subset of "magical ability," it is clear that the intent should be to align "all other magical abilities" to the same rules as "spells").

Finally, it includes trademarks that the trademark owner wishes to designate as Product Identity. This is perhaps somewhat redundant in practical usage, given that Section 7 forbids the use of trademarks without a separate agreement anyway, but it is a separate and distinct item on the list.

*whew*

After going through all that, I then look back at what I have figured out about Product Identity to better understand what must be OGC. We know that anything dealing with game mechanics must be OGC unless it meets one of the following:
(1) anything that is PI is not OGC,
(2) any game mechanic (shorthand for the whole phrase) that embodies PI and is an enhancement over prior art is not OGC

I should immediately note that I do not think that (2) can be satisfied simply by referring to "the mechanics that describe the spell/creature/character named X." I would suggest that in that instance, the name "embodies the rules," rather than vice versa. In other words, "fireball" embodies "1d6 points of damage per level to a 20-foot spread" but "1d6 points of damage per level to a 20-foot spread" does not embody the potential PI'd spell name "fireball." So merely giving something a PI-able name is, IMO, not sufficient to call the mechanics associated with the thing as PI.

Having derived general rules for treatment of subject matter, now I can consider things on a case by case basis... for example, the spell template discussed earlier.

Premise: A spell template contains game mechanics.

Premise: Game mechanics must be OGC unless (a) they are PI or (b) they embody the PI in the product and are an enchancement over prior art.

Premise: The spell template is (demonstrably) not declared as PI.

Conclusion: The spell template must be OGC unless it embodies Product Identity in the product and is an enchancement over prior art.

Premise: The spell template is an enhancement over prior art. (By which I mean that it expands, clarifies, changes, or otherwise "adds value" existing rules/OGC).

Conclusion 2: The spell template must be OGC unless it embodies Product Identity in the product.

The question then becomes, "does the spell template embody Product Identity?" (Remember, I feel that a simple PI'd name that names the spell template itself is not sufficient to satisfy this requirement - which is a moot point anyway because, I believe, the spell template names are not declared as PI anyway - though, I could be wrong).

That's the question I have to answer to know whether or not the spell templates can be closed... "do they embody PI contained somewhere in the work?" (Not: do they embdoy closed content somewhere in the work - the OGL explicitly states that they must embody something that IS - not something that could be but isn't - Product Identity). That is left as an exercise for the reader. I myself have not examined the book, but I suspect I would not find Product Identity that the spell templates embody, hence my belief that the spell templates SHOULD (in a legal compliance with the OGL terms sense, not in a "moral" sense) be designated as Open Game Content... and could possibly construed as "forced" to be such by the OGL and re-used, regardless of Monte's designation (though a warning - that would be using "polluted OGC" and you had best be willing to stake a lawsuit on it).

Again, IANAL. This is not legal advice. This is simply my personal opinion of how I feel the OGL should be interpreted in general and in this specific case. If you want a more binding view, consult your own IP lawyer. Hope it makes sense (it's wordy, I know).

--The Sigil
 

The Sigil said:
This is simply my personal opinion of how I feel the OGL should be interpreted in general and in this specific case. ... Hope it makes sense (it's wordy, I know).

--The Sigil

Yeah, that about sums up my line o' reasoning. :-)

Nell.
 

Orcus said:
Why does this exist? I think to encourage publishers of other game systems (Chaosium and thier Elric system for one were very worried about this) to convert to d20 without running the risk that some of the things unique to their game system would now be open to everyone.
A good example that I know of would be T20: The Traveller's Handbook, where they incorporates the original Traveller's High Guard ship creation system into T20. While they leave the ship's stat block OGC, they retain original Traveller ship creation rules mechanics PI.
 

Staffan said:
Personally, I think that it could be read either way. In order for it to only be what Clark says, it should probably say "does not embody the Product Identity or is an enhancement over the prior art".
Well, I'm a native speaker and I agree with this interpretation. I don't interpret the "and" as part of a subclause because other "and"s in the sentense clearly bring new clauses to bear. An "or" where indicated would put me in Clark's camp.

Now, to go back and dig through Sigil's normal neverending post. :)
 

Aragorn brings up a great example.

As for a "stance" my stance shifts on this and has shifted several times. I am not even sure if in a month I will agree with my current position. For example, I closed some content in Wilderlands that maybe I should have opened.

I repeat: this is a really tricky issue and I see two reasonable arguments, one on each side of the fence. I do lean to an interpretation that allows rules to be PI (and RangerREG's example is a good one). The only thing I would disagree with perhaps is where the line is drawn--what is the scope of how much can be closed. I cant answer that question. And believe me, I like answering questions. So if I could I would.

Clark
 

I do have to say that I think it shows a very good grasp of the license by everyone to even be intelligently discussing this issue. I think this is one of the "finer" points of the license. Most people just dont have enough of a grasp of the license to follow along with this. This is definately OGL 440 not OGL 101 (and just like a 400 level class we answer questions with theories and philosophies not nice black and white answers :) ). So good work to everyone who is participating.

Clark
 

Orcus said:
I do have to say that I think it shows a very good grasp of the license by everyone to even be intelligently discussing this issue. I think this is one of the "finer" points of the license. Most people just dont have enough of a grasp of the license to follow along with this. This is definately OGL 440 not OGL 101 (and just like a 400 level class we answer questions with theories and philosophies not nice black and white answers :) ). So good work to everyone who is participating.

Clark
Nah, this is definitely OGL 404 - Answer Not Found. :D

--The Sigil
 

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jmucchiello said:
OTOH, I wouldn't use spell templates with normal spellcaster classes. I don't believe ladening a spell is costly enough to sorcerers and is too costly for wizards. They need a different mechanic for those classes that is more fair. But that's a different kettle of fish.

Go back a bit in topic...I looked up what I'd been working on:

Laden Spell [Metamagic]
You can cast metamagiced spells without increasing the spell’s level.
Benefit: Instead of increasing a spell’s level by one, you can chose to expend two spell slots instead. You can do this only once per spell, but you can increase the laden spell’s level to add additional effects (a silent ladened sleep spell would use two first level slots; a silent and stilled ladened sleep spell would use two second level slots.)

I spent a few hours rewriting metamagic feats; they might be too powerful now, but ce la vie. I'll test them later.

Cheers
nell.

Who just ran into the The Comic Store Girl at the Highland Games, and found out she's moved nearby, and has a nice boyfriend, and they and their friends are looking for a nice game of D&D, and Nell has just ended his 'cause he's tired of the same old people with the same old characters....
 

The Sigil said:
Nah, this is definitely OGL 404 - Answer Not Found. :D

--The Sigil

Thanks for making me laugh!

Unfortunately, 404 is not an uncommon reaction to language meant to define hard and fast rules. The nature of language is such that it is always open to varying interpretations. This is one reason that licenses really do require open discussion so those using them can at least attempt to come to some sort of consensus.

The simplest advice is often the best. The person or group of people who designated the content always know what they meant to do regardless of interpretation. So contacting them can clear up any questions you might have.

Problems stem from them not being available. So when the original publisher is not available what do you do? This is something that I do not think has ever been addressed to anyone's satisfaction. Will the OGL last long enough to possibly need a group to help clear up these issues? I don't know. It's an interesting thought though.
 

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