D&D (2024) What happens when a multiclass character loses a prerequisite?

[Fanaelialae]

At least based on the sources available to me, there is no such card in the 5.0 Deck of Many Things. There is the Puzzle card of the optional (and nastier, for the bad cards) Deck of Many More Things, but now we're talking about a single rare possibility of an optional variant of an extremely powerful and notorious artifact that will never appear in most games.

99.9% of players will never even see this card. The vast majority of those who do won't be MC'd into a class that requires specifically Int to take (since that's only two classes, Wizard and Artificer). Do you have anything else? Because if this is your only example then I feel pretty confident about my claim, with a single carve out for "if you get really unlucky with a nastier version of the Game-Ruining Deck."

Page 164 of the 5.0 DMG (the one with Acererak on the cover).
"Idiot. Permanently reduce your Intelligence by 1d4 + 1 (to a minimum score of 1). You can draw one additional card beyond your declared draws."

It's not only in 5.0, it's in the 5.0 core.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Page 164 of the 5.0 DMG (the one with Acererak on the cover).
"Idiot. Permanently reduce your Intelligence by 1d4 + 1 (to a minimum score of 1). You can draw one additional card beyond your declared draws."

It's not only in 5.0, it's in the 5.0 core.

Okay.

Do you have any argument with the statement that this won't affect the vast majority of players and even if it did, wouldn't actually affect their choice to multiclass?

So, fine. I was wrong to say that it isn't there. It's just so extremely rare almost no one will ever see it. Happy now?

 

[Fanaelialae]

Okay.

Do you have any argument with the statement that this won't affect the vast majority of players and even if it did, wouldn't actually affect their choice to multiclass?

So, fine. I was wrong to say that it isn't there. It's just so extremely rare almost no one will ever see it. Happy now?

My objection was to calling permanent attribute loss in 5.0 a house rule. I, myself, said it is rare. That said, it is a core rule. I expect that there are plenty of campaigns that never touch the rules for mounted combat, but that doesn't make them house rules.

While I obviously can't speak to the intent of the designers, it stems to reason for me that any rules preventing advancement due to attribute loss weren't seen as necessary, because what purpose would such serve? It doesn't serve verisimilitude or enjoyment or balance to allow a player to create and advance as a 3 Intelligence wizard if that was their first class; yet if they started as a fighter and then multiclassed to wizard, but then drop to a 12 Intelligence, they can't advance as a wizard anymore? Even though the guy with 3 Intelligence still can, just because he started as a wizard? Wouldn't make any sense.

By RAW, if your stats drop it can prevent you from being able to take a new multiclass (because you don't meet the prereqs). However, it doesn't impact any class you already have levels in, because as other posters already pointed out, the rules say nothing about that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Page 164 of the 5.0 DMG (the one with Acererak on the cover).
"Idiot. Permanently reduce your Intelligence by 1d4 + 1 (to a minimum score of 1). You can draw one additional card beyond your declared draws."

It's not only in 5.0, it's in the 5.0 core.

That's not actually a rule. What are the consequences, of say, having your intelligence reduced to 2? Can you still talk? Cast wizard spells? The rules don't say.

This is just something copy-pasted from earlier editions without checking it made sense.

 

[ezo]

Frankly there is nothing RAW about it either way. It doesn't specify a loss in ability scores results in losing access/ features from a class you multiclassed into, nor does it say it results in no change at all.

A classing case of "Ruling not Rule" for 5E design.

After watching the video on D&D in the 70's in the other thread, I feel like we're going back to that time--when D&D lacked cohesive rules to feel like we were all in fact playing the same game.

I know people rip on Gygax for all the rules in AD&D, but I get why they are there. Like them or not, at least they were there. We used all of them for the most part--but I know now that was unusual then. I just thought it was how you played the game.

 

[Fanaelialae]

That's not actually a rule. What are the consequences, of say, having your intelligence reduced to 2? Can you still talk? Cast wizard spells? The rules don't say.

This is just something copy-pasted from earlier editions without checking it made sense.

Yeah, it is. It's the specific rule for the Idiot card in the DoMT, not a general rule. But it is a rule.

The rules say that having your Intelligence reduced to 2 results in a -4 penalty to Intelligence-based checks and DCs. They say nothing more about starting with low stats, even though low stats are possible in RAW with rolled stats.

Someone on ENWorld wrote a great post a few years back (wish I could find it) that actually mapped out the distribution of stats and showed that low stats weren't that dramatically below the norm. Basically, that even someone with a 3 Intelligence isn't mentally handicapped or anything, they're just moderately less intelligent than an average person. Assuming that's the case, you don't need special rules about being able to speak and so forth with low intelligence. The existing rules handle it fine (and say that yes, you can still speak and cast spells).

 

[TiQuinn]

Ask the player what they’d want to do just to see if they want to maybe roleplay the loss of being a paladin or leveling as a paladin and what they’d want that to look like.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

3 Intelligence isn't mentally handicapped or anything, they're just moderately less intelligent than an average person.

3 intelligence is dumber than a baboon.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

3 intelligence is dumber than a baboon.

So moderately less intelligent than the average internet user

 

[ECMO3]

That's inaccurate, at least for 5.14e (not sure about 5.24e, as I haven't done a thorough read through). While rare, there are official mechanics that can permanently reduce your stats. For example, you draw the Idiot from the DoMT, reducing your Intelligence by 1d4+1 permanently.

Feeblemind is also permanent for most creatures.