What happens when the Defender dies?

[Tuft]

The sole Defender in the team has just died the final perma-death, and that character's player now wants to play something completely different, as is not too uncommon when a beloved character goes to the big ring-binder in the sky. What do you think happens then?

How necessary will it be that all the roles are filled?

I'm wondering a bit about this, because in my MMO of choice, City of Heroes, I've been in many a group that have stood completely paralyzed because the team leader could not find a Tank to invite to the team, and "you cannot run missions without a Tank"... (Tank here equals the 4ed Defender role.)

 

[Generico]

I don't think it will be much different than it's always been in D&D. These character "roles" are not new. The defender is not a new thing your party has to worry about. It will be no different from what happens when your groups fighter or barbarian dies in a 3.5 game.

 

[Victim]

A party without all the roles filled is probably at a disadvantage, but not an insurmountable one.

How a party without a defender operates probably depends on what they've doubled up on. A Striker heavy group probably gets by preemptively spiking out tough targets, and using their fluidity to hopefully avoid attacks. More Controllers means the group is better able to lockdown the battlefield. More leaders should mean that the group can keep people healed up.

Or something. Without seeing exactly how everything operates, it's tough to say.

 

[hong]

The defender going missing is fine. It's the leader going missing that looks likely to be the tough one. If experience is any guide, a party medic is the one indispensable role in games where such a role exists.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The basic balance they've said they were aiming for is that with a four person party you could drop one role, get two of another, and still be good with both the subtraction and the bonus. The Leader was the specific example - no leader still ok, two leaders not bad.

So a party with no defenders should be good as would a party with two defenders.

Now, a party with no defenders, three controllers, and a striker is probably going to have some issues.

There may even be some specific relationships, a Paladin, for instance, sounds like it can sub for a leader really easilly and the Ranger, Warlord, or Cleric might make good defenders.

But a fighter probably won't be that awesome a leader, and I doubt a Wizard will make a great defender.

And that may go the other way, too.

A party with two defenders a leader and a striker is going to have a very different battle versus an Elite a Skirmisher and a horde of mooks then the vanilla role list might.

It's probably still a good encounter, but you'll probably be off on timing and how effective individual components of the monster squad might be.

 

[Voss]

In some ways it will be a bit easier anyway, as someone can probably just pick up class training and grab something useful from another class- serious healing, a big AoE spell, a control effect or whatever. It narrows the gaps a bit, even if you don't have to fill them, exactly.

About the only thing I probably wouldn't want too many of is controllers, depending on how they're done. Multiple overlapping fields of Evard's 4e Tentacles of Win aren't necessarily helpful. But multiple strikers should drop enemies extra fast (always good) , multiple defenders could form a veritable wall and multiple leaders can toss about extra healing (and actions!). These things are always good.

 

[Jhulae]

As has been said, same thing that's always happened. Many times I've been in a group missing one of the 'key' roles, and well, the party just has to deal with it.

 

[Tuft]

I don't think it will be much different than it's always been in D&D. These character "roles" are not new. The defender is not a new thing your party has to worry about. It will be no different from what happens when your groups fighter or barbarian dies in a 3.5 game.

Well, the roles have been made much more official, and less informal. That too me smells of harder delineation and separation, and less overlap.

 

[Tuft]

The defender going missing is fine. It's the leader going missing that looks likely to be the tough one. If experience is any guide, a party medic is the one indispensable role in games where such a role exists.

Well, that "indispensable role" have often been played by a Wand of CLW + "Use Magic Item". Will that still be possible in 4e?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Well, that "indispensable role" have often been played by a Wand of CLW + "Use Magic Item". Will that still be possible in 4e?

It shouldn't be necessary in 4e at all.

Every class has healing capabilities now. All the leaders do is add functionality.