What happens when they die?

[HeapThaumaturgist]

So the flavor text I can find, D&D creatures with souls go to the plane correct for their alignment "when they die".

What, exactly, does that mean? What do they become there? Where is this detailed?

It came up the other night when a PC died and when we went to Raise him the player said: "You never know, I might not want to come back." and I said: "I know where your god lives, I'll drag you back down here by your beard."

Are there Celestial PCs running around the upper planes? Do they get transformed into archons or devils? I'm sure this is in a book somewhere that I don't own, but now that we've got plane-hopping magic and dead-raising magic it seems like something that would be good to know.

--fje

 

[Shemeska]

The souls of dead mortals either go to the realm of any patron deity they have (or anyone else that applies such as an archfiend if they sold their soul at some point), or their soul goes to the plane that most closely fits their alignment. The souls of dead mortals are then known as 'petitioners'. Petitioners typically are stripped of their memories of mortal life, being only the core personality they had and their alignment in a more pure form. They lack the distractions of mortality and strive to further understand, promote, and eventually become one with the plane/their alignment/any patron deity they have.

Some petitioners are incapable of willingly leaving their native plane, and they're generally terrified of the idea. Thing is, if a petitioner is killed off of that plane, they're permenantly destroyed, and have lost their chance of merging with the plane/any patron deity they have. Thus, most petitioners won't be found outside of their native plane. Exceptions to this however exist: Larvae, manes/dretches, lemures, nupperibos, and lantern archons are petitioner types that are capable of leaving their native planes.

The 3e Manual of the Planes addresses petitioners, though the most in depth detail on the topic is in the 2e 'On Hallowed Ground' sourcebook.

As for dead mortals becoming outsiders... some of the true outsider races arise from mortal souls, either entirely or partially:

Archons: the lowest form of archon, the lantern archon, is the default form for petitioners to Mount Celestia. All higher forms of Archon start out as lanterns and are subsequently promoted to higher forms.

Baatezu: 99.99999% of all Baatezu start out as either larvae or lemures, both of them being types of petitioners [larvae can be found on the Gray Waste, the Abyss, or Baator; lemures just on Baator].

Tanar'ri: Many Tanar'ri start out as larvae or manes/dretches. Many other Tanar'ri are formed direct from the Abyss or born from mating Tanar'ri.

Hordelings: Hordelings on the Gray Waste are formed from specific, unique larvae (and Night Hags from advanced Hordelings)

[Yugoloths don't form from petitioners at all (they predate mortal life). Obyriths don't form from petitioners either (as they also appear to predate mortal life). Modrons have a static number and form from the raw stuff of mechanus. Slaadi are bizarre. Rilmani... nobody knows. Guardinals and Eladrin don't appear to have links to petitioners.]

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

That doesn't sound like much fun at all, truth be told. My character would go to Mount Celestia, but I don't think he'd much want to go if somebody told him he'd be one of the little balls of light that get called up with Summon Monster IV.

I figured there'd be roast oxen and mead and feats of skill at arms.

--fje

 

[Shemeska]

That doesn't sound like much fun at all, truth be told. My character would go to Mount Celestia, but I don't think he'd much want to go if somebody told him he'd be one of the little balls of light that get called up with Summon Monster IV.

I figured there'd be roast oxen and mead and feats of skill at arms.

--fje

For them, without the hindering influence of mortality, it's what they want.

Typically petitioners to a plane aren't going there for eternal bliss or eternal torment, they're being drawn there because their own metaphysical essence most closely resembles that plane's. From that point on, moving closer and closer into accord with that alignment/plane is their primary goal.

For some petitioners this may mean eventually merging with the fabric of the plane, for others it may mean ascending from being a mane to being an Abyssal Lord (in fact Orcus was once mortal and ended up clawing his way up to his current status), or becoming a high ranking archon or aasimon (angel) working to spread their own conception of good, etc.

It's generally a reboot point for PCs though, because the transition tends to remake them, rather than just them being the exact same, levels and all, living on some other plane. Depends on what you're looking for in a game's theme if it'll work or not to have petitioner PCs [I've never done it myself; though I've used plenty of outsider PCs].

 

[Wolfwood2]

That doesn't sound like much fun at all, truth be told. My character would go to Mount Celestia, but I don't think he'd much want to go if somebody told him he'd be one of the little balls of light that get called up with Summon Monster IV.

All in all, the afterlife not sounding like much fun is more interesting for the game, IMHO.

Yeah, dying sucks. There's no eternal reward or heaven as such; the best you can hope for is that in you will find some satisfaction in the next phase of existance, even if it doesn't sound like much fun to your mortal self. Focuses attention on the Prime Material and makes those who risk death for what's right more heroic.

 

[Nail]

The 3e Manual of the Planes addresses petitioners, though the most in depth detail on the topic is in the 2e 'On Hallowed Ground' sourcebook.

Problem: That's 2e. Much has changed between editions.

I didn't know about this 2e book. Interesting. Published in 1996, which was a dark year for TSR......

 

[Shemeska]

Problem: That's 2e. Much has changed between editions.

Not as far as petitioners go.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I really like the take that Eberron has on it:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20040309a

Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead

A place of hopelessness, eternal despair, and consuming apathy, Dolurrh is the realm where mortal souls go after death.

also

Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead

A place of hopelessness, eternal despair, and consuming apathy, Dolurrh is the realm where mortal souls go after death. It is not a reward. It is not a punishment. It just is.

Dolurrh has the following traits:
Heavy gravity.
Timeless.
Impeded abilities.

Entrapping. A visitor to Dolurrh experiences increasing apathy and despair while there. Colors become grayer and less vivid, sounds duller, and all experiences tainted with ennui. At the conclusion of everyday (of subjective time) spent in Dolurrh, any non-native must must make a Will saving throw (DC 15 + the number of consecutive days in Dolurrh). Failure indicates that the individual has fallen entirely under the control of the plane, becoming an incorporeal shade (*ghost), an outsider native of the plane.

Travelers trapped by Dolurrh cannot leave the plane of their own volition and have no desire to do so. Memories of any previous life fade into nothingness, and it takes a wish or miracle spell to return them.

Typically after a certain period in Dolurrh, people 'pass on' to some other existence beyond mortal ken, and can no longer be raised, resurrected or anything.

It does raise the possibility of planar travel to Dolurrh to bring someone back from there though, like the classic myths of rescueing people from Hades.

Another Eberron religion holds out a different hope - for the followers of the Silver Flame, if they are pure enough then when they die they may merge and become one with the silver flame!

Is it any wonder that the Blood of Vol church aims to stave off death via undeath, and the elves of Aerenal keep their ancestors alive as Undying, so that the great minds are not lost?

FWIW I love this aspect of the cosmology; far less tacky than 'I go to my gods home plane and bring fred back from there', which seems positively pedestrian.

CHeers

 

[Dross]

Two points:
Raise Dead only works IF the soul is willing to return......

I'd rather not trust the soul of a person that I forcibly returned to life, they are likely to resent it. (So might the player. )

Other than that, what world do you play on? FR, Eberron, Greyhawk? FR has it's own cosmology about what happens, as apparently does Eberron.

If you are not the DM , ask. Their vision might be different to whatever 'official' policy there is.

Souls might simply go to reside on the appropriate plan, not becoming an outsider or anything else (I've done enough, now I'm going to rest!).

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Oh, it's Greyhawk. Mostly I was curious as to if the "game" had an answer to the question.

My character wouldn't much be worried about whether or not they wanted to come back. He's a foolhardily head-strong cleric of St. Cuthbert who would, given a moment's provocation, probably kick down Moradin's mead-hall door and pull somebody out by their beard. Besides, Moradin would agree, if there's world-saving as needs to be done only a coward is going to stay dead.

Pugnacious is putting it mildly.

--fje