What Have We Done About Solos?

[ender_wiggin]

Ok, so there is a subgroup of 4E players and DMs here that believe that fighting solos by the book is lame, for a multitude of reasons.

Now that I've DMed my first 4E campaign almost to completion, I am inclined to agree. The solo fights I've ran have been boring and lack the tense nature of non-solo fights. The last fight of the campaign will probably be a solo, so I have a bit of responsibility to make this one climactic and exciting.

So for those of you that agree with me, what have you done to alleviate the problem(s)?

--

Sorry, I could search the boards thoroughly, but I have no search function.

 

[deadsmurf]

Ok, so there is a subgroup of 4E players and DMs here that believe that fighting solos by the book is lame, for a multitude of reasons.

Now that I've DMed my first 4E campaign almost to completion, I am inclined to agree. The solo fights I've ran have been boring and lack the tense nature of non-solo fights. The last fight of the campaign will probably be a solo, so I have a bit of responsibility to make this one climactic and exciting.

So for those of you that agree with me, what have you done to alleviate the problem(s)?

--

Sorry, I could search the boards thoroughly, but I have no search function.

Some people have upped the damage they do but lowered their hit points (1.5 times damage, 0.75 times Hp I think is common)

Another suggestion is to make them the same level or only a level or two higher, and have some flunkies, possibly in waves, to keep the fight interesting as it continues. Just because they are 'solo' doesn't mean they should be fought alone.

Another suggestion is once they're bloodied, have them take another few good hits and that's it, end it (as long no one in the party is about to die or whatever)

 

[James McMurray]

Why make the last fight a solo? Lower the boss's level by a couple and fill it in with some complimentary hazards and/or monsters.

If it absolutely has to be a solo, make sure the terrain matches it. And don't be stingy with the recharge powers. A fight that's degenerated to at-wills is boring.

Tailor the monster to the party. Make sure that everyone can do something, and that everyone will be challenged.

Add a goal to the combat besides "kill the BBEG." Maybe it's a running fight to stop the boss from reaching the shiny red button that implodes the universe. Or a hostage situation where resources have to be split between saving someone and fighting someone else (just make sure "we'll raise him later" isn't a viable tactic). Or perhaps something from this great thread.

 

[keterys]

I just did a solo fight... and by solo, I mean a level 5 solo dragon, a level 4 elite goblin ranger, and a level 3 pet shadowhunter bat, in a room with lots of columns, areas where darkness and lighting mattered for setting up combat advantage for the goblin sharpshooter ranger or dim light for the shadowhunter bat, and a big gaping hole in the floor which would drop people into the next room down and the solo tried to figure out how to flee once it was bloodied, then actively fled once it got down to 1/4 and the elite ran to the edge of the building as the dragon flew by to pick him up and the fighter's opportunity attack critted to finish off the goblin and the wizard's ray of frost missed and the dragon limped away just out of range with 19 hp... everyone went bloodied in the battle, almost every resource was used, and it was a ton of fun.

So yeah... solos as a concept workable, but solo with no backup in a room with no terrain features? Crap. Either turns into a boring slug fest or it gets obliterated really fast, in my experience.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Solo monsters are not meant to be encountered solo.

I dont know how many times people have had to say that.

For example:

Level 5 Encounter (XP 1,225)
1 young black dragon (level 4 solo lurker)
2 dark creepers (level 4 skirmisher)

or another example:

Level 29 Encounter (XP 81,000)
2 blood fiends (level 23 soldier, MM 12)
1 rotvine defiler (level 26 solo controller)

I am sure that you can find other examples in all of the books. But needless to say if you are playing a Solo monster all by itself you are really putting it at a disadvantage.

 

[Victim]

Our group generally just uses Elites as bosses instead of solos. A solo by itself hasn't worked out that well, and our group often has only 4 players, so there's less room to add other things to the solo.

 

[Mentat55]

You can use advanced search on Google to search enworld, it works great! That is how I found this thread again:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/253587-d-d-solos-just-not-threatening-3.html

Message #46, and in particular #49, are great. Morgan_Scott82 writes about the "action ratio", and I think this is key. What it means is that solos as written in the MM probably need some TLC to get them up to snuff -- they don't have as many effective actions, or ways to reduce PC actions, as they need.

I agree that x5 hit points at paragon / epic is a bit much. And they need to do more damage -- but then again, most MM monsters at paragon / epic need to do more damage, and if you give them more actions, that will also help.

Solos can and should be usable alone. I disagree that the MM entries mean that they should always be used in groups -- those examples are always higher level encounters than the solo's level.

 

[keterys]

Message #46, and in particular #49, are great. Morgan_Scott82 writes about the "action ratio", and I think this is key.

I will say that his theories only work for some groups - and they actually get downright dangerous if things turn bad, since if the party is reduced in numbers to a certain point they're just completely screwed since the first two attacks each round attack themselves...

Reducing and nullifying PC actions isn't necessarily fun.

Solos can and should be usable alone. I disagree that the MM entries mean that they should always be used in groups -- those examples are always higher level encounters than the solo's level.

Most solo encounters should be higher level than the PCs... so for example if you have 5th level PCs, throwing a level 7 encounter at them that includes a level 5 solo is good practice.

 

[DracoSuave]

Traps, terrain features, and henchthings.

Like -every- fight in 4e, it's strongly advised you throw into the encounter something other than simply the solo monster. One monster gets boring in pretty much any game system, even if the solo has lots of options. However, make the room it is in interesting, and then there's more to it than just a 'padded sumo.'

 

[Runestar]

But what if you really just want one foe fighting the party? You don't want henchmen? What then?

I guess the first issue is status effects. You will want solos to be able to counter or at least reduce their impact on it.