What Have We Done About Solos?

[Goumindong]

Most of the problem comes from economy of actions. Players who are able to daze and stun really kill the ability of solo monsters to make themselves felt.

I think that WotC has recognized this and their solo monster design is starting to show it.

The Solo White Dragon from the latest Dungeon[Latest Sales of War] isn't in the compendium yet, but its a lvl 16 brute and it gets two turns per round and any time its afflicted by an effect that stuns/dazes that effect ends at the beginning of the next turn.[So you can stun him for 1 action/round, but not 2 actions/round].

When you add everything all up it certainly looks imposing and seems to get around the typical problems that Solo's seem to have.

 

[keterys]

Strange...I see the anti-Marking and the increased damage as heads become more numerous making this solo fight at least interesting as the fight goes on.

I don't see an appreciable excitement difference between
Round 1: Makes 5 attacks on someone
Round 7: Makes 7 attacks on someone

I do like that it has a method around marking, but honestly it's just rude. If a swordmage marks it, and it's alone, the swordmage likely just dies since he has no way to _unmark_ it. At least a paladin can choose to shift a square back and second wind, to make his challenge drop.

It has no ranged attacks. No reactions. No ways to deal with immobilize or slow with its all melee attacks - it's just mean to melee characters, and trivial for ranged characters, and nothing to move PCs, nothing to change the dynamic beyond a tiny increase in single target...

Even its 'I hit everyone' recharged by crit is almost always worse than its at-will.

So, yeah, it'll wander around going 'Uhh, I full attack, four hits, 60 damage' and people will pop some surges, and eventually it'll just die. Whee.

The fact that it's got an extra +2 attack may actually be more of a saving grace, though the other did also have the ability to attack Reflex if making ranged attacks wasn't too horrible (which it may well be in a melee-heavy party)

 

[chaotix42]

You've greatly marginalized the hydra's ability to knock out PCs. I think it's gonna do a lot more than force some surge usage and die. With some extra heads and an AP it has a rather frightening potential for damage.

I'm of the opinion that this is the first hydra I'm actually interested in running.

 

[James McMurray]

I find it funny that a lot of advice for making solos better is to add more monsters. Perhaps "solo" should have been renamed "BBEG" instead?

Yeah. You expect a BBEG to bring meatshields. Even WotC frequently puts solos in a group.

I think the idea was that solos could hold their own, not that they necessarily should.

 

[keterys]

You've greatly marginalized the hydra's ability to knock out PCs. I think it's gonna do a lot more than force some surge usage and die. With some extra heads and an AP it has a rather frightening potential for damage.

Of course it does. That doesn't make it interesting!

Every single round it's going to make it's 5-8 attacks against one target, and that target will drop or not, get healed or not. It will never do a status effect. It will never push or slide a target. It won't attack multiple people. It won't react to anything the party does. Nothing.

I mean, it could just as easily be a earth titan with two lines:

Immune Mark

Fist
+25 vs. AC; 4d10+40 damage (4d10 + 50 when bloodied)

 

[chaotix42]

Lately my PCs don't seem to be enjoying conditions very much. "Oh boy, daze again." In fact some of the most enjoyable encounters we've had have been slug fests with simple brutes like trolls and ogres.

This hydra seems pretty interesting to me. No conditions? No problem.

 

[Kinneus]

Every single round it's going to make it's 5-8 attacks against one target, and that target will drop or not, get healed or not.

Where does it say these attacks need to be against the same target? Did I misread it?
Also, it's a relatively simple matter to slap an extra power onto it that gives it a little pushing/sliding ability, if that seems vital. Or, better yet, put it in some interesting terrain that encourages movement.

 

[Victim]

Where does it say these attacks need to be against the same target? Did I misread it?
Also, it's a relatively simple matter to slap an extra power onto it that gives it a little pushing/sliding ability, if that seems vital. Or, better yet, put it in some interesting terrain that encourages movement.

Nothing. But nothing prevents all the attacks from being on one target either.

And considering how much damage it can do a single target, it's usually pretty dumb not to just shred one guy.

 

[fuzzlewump]

Solo Encounters as Multiple Creatures

Maybe some solo fights can instead be 5 separate creatures that are bound together: like legs, head, and tail of a dragon all having separate stats. It would give you milestones in the fight, as taking down legs or a tail would be tangible achievement, which solo encounters in general lack. As you're bashing away at 500 hit points, the only dent you put into it is the "bloodied" title.

Certainly details would have to be worked out, such as the issue of going straight for the head for the kill. One answer is to increase, substantially, the defenses of the head while the dragon's other parts are active, as they will act as defense. This could be trite and "videogamey," (Take down the ____ to reveal his weak point!) which are not really problems at my table. Another view is that the head can be targeted normally without any defense increase and "killing" it just means the dragon cannot bite or use his breath weapon anymore. From a narrative point of view, once it seems his head is in critical danger, he then uses his other parts in defense (thus attacks directed at the head after it is "killed" are randomly assigned to whatever the dragon puts in the way.) Another way is to not allow targeting of parts, and simply take down parts in a random order as his total HP ticks down. From a narrative point of view, the attack that brings his HP down far enough to kill one of his parts means that the dragon used his (roll a 1d4, or whatever, and for this example we rolled...) tail as a last defense measure, which can be seen as putting it between a sword and his neck, and the dragon loses use of the tail. The players feel the climax of achieving an important milestone, but they still have the rest of the dragon to deal with (4 more creatures, from the point of view of the dungeon master.)

Another detail is what creatures to use? Would the legs be equivalent to appropriate level brutes, and the tail to a lurker? The head, a controller? The body, a soldier? Should each act on every round, or should turns be halved and damage be doubled for certain parts?

One final issue that I just thought of is that at some points fights with multiple enemies have very clear turning points that seem irreversible. Solo fights on the other hand, retain their difficulty throughout, thus having the potential of being dangerous throughout the encounter, assuming the players thought they were dangerous to begin with. The dragon, after losing some parts can try to run away (as some adventures dictate once the dragons reach a certain point,) or perhaps go berserk and increase the damage of his remaining parts. These options equate to a "fight or flight" mechanism, which makes sense for anyone who has felt an adrenaline rush (most everyone, I think.)

I'd love to hear any thoughts. Or, feel free to direct me to a post that has posited the same things.

 

[Nebulous]

i've put together a custom solo monster for an upcoming fight. It is alone, but will be a total ambush situation where the PCs get hit hard and fast by a big monster they don't expect. The idea is to really scare them. There are a couple of terrain features that will help it, not much, and the party isn't geared (yet) to stunlock it, so i'm not worried about that. I just tried to give it multiple powers to hinder the PCs, but not so many hit points that it will end up a boring fight. I'm very curious to see what happens.