D&D 5E What high-level spells could warp society?

Nope. That's the amount of people who are capable of that sort of magic, not who do.

I'm imagining that those who do have the capability generally become aware of it, and it might even just manifest spontaneously if not properly trained/channeled. (I imagine sorcerers are far more prevalent among those with high magic potential.)


In the 1400s China's Imperial Examination would test 2-3 million people per year(ish), and only 1% passed. The exams weren't held on a steady schedule and varied by region so this is an annualized average. The "typical" official took the test 2 or 3 times before passing in their 30s.

Giving people multiple chances to show their potential has historic precedence.

The benefit of just adding cantrips like Mold Earth to do heavy labor, Control Flames to extinguish fires, or Create Bonfire to provide sustianed heat without fuel, or Guidance to just act as a professional "good luck charm" are very easy to recognize.

Now, if 37% of the magically capable of just casting Druidcraft or Elementalism that value is.....significantly less
 

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For 'wizard school' to be the equivalent of going for your PhD... that only makes sense if there was also Master's, Bachelor's, high school, and primary schooling available for citizens, in order to discover which people were able to go on for their doctorates. But I don't see any medieval fantasy settings except for Eberron have anything even close to resembling the leveled schooling necessary to "find" the students able to go on to Wizard School if Wizard School was really as tough as you suggest.

How would anyone even know that they could become wizards if it was the equivalent of a PhD program? Just random guessing? "You know... I'm just a local farmer and I've never actually been to school before... but I just KNOW I have the aptitude to learn how to be a Wizard! Let me cut straight to the PhD program and get started! Where's the local wizard and let him take a look at me!"

No. If learning 1st level arcane magic was really that difficult-- that only the select few could even start to do it-- society would have designed and put into place a whole system of schooling (just like we in the real world have) in order to find and prove which students actually could become wizards. The world would have learned long ago the need to separate the wheat from the metric tons of chaff and how best to do it.

Look... if some people really want to believe that a world that has the "tech level" of 7th, 8th and 9th level magic would actually remain stuck in a faux-medieval world for tens of thousands of years... go nuts. They aren't even advancing and progressing from Ancient Greece tech levels -to- Medieval tech levels over those millennia... but a place like Faerun remaining stuck JUST in medieval tech that entire time. To me that is patently ridiculous and I have no problem pointing that out. Yeah, it makes for really lovely 'knights and fairies' entertainment and stories... but absolutely wretched anthropology.
I think that Thay did that in frcs before 4e corrupted it into the current bizarre thing.
 

@DEFCON 1 It weas unapproachable east not FRCS. The section on Thay is quite a few pages★ & really outlines an interesting region to adventure in with a lot of morally grey to black stuff going on that is often not things that can simply be cleanly solved with the addition of higher level adventurers. I was going to just grab the paragraph or so talking about it but decided to grab a bit more of the life & society section because it really does a good job of setting the tone of how magic warped Thay society
Life and Society
There are four levels of Thayan society. They are, in order
of increasing influence: slaves, commoners, nobles, and Red
Wizards. It’s no coincidence that this is also the decreasing
order of population. There are far more slaves in Thay than
any other group, but they have the least power. The Red Wiz-
ards, on the other hand, have few members but easily the
most power.

SLAVES
The lowest level of Thayan society is, of course, the slave. The
economy of Thay is built upon slave labor, and without it the
country would quickly collapse. The current trade in magic
items has changed this only a little, and it has not improved
the lives of slaves one whit.
Slaves are not considered citizens and have no rights. They
are chattels, like livestock. Killing or harming a slave is not
murder or mayhem. It is merely damaging someone’s prop-
erty. A slave’s owner can do with his own slave as he wishes,
but if he harms someone else’s property, he is expected to
make reparations.

Slaves are costly (a young human field slave sells for about
50 gp in the markets at Eltabbar), so few commoners have the
means to own them. Since slaves represent a significant in-
vestment for a small farmer or artisan, common Thayans
take good care of them. Slaves consigned to the broad estates
of noble Thayans face a harder existence, and those unfortu-
nate souls sold off to the vast state-run fields or mines are
treated as nothing more than beasts of burden.
Thay imports slaves from all over Faerûn, and just about
every race is represented among the servile population. Those
who survive the trip are usually the hardiest, but most do not
last long in their job. House slaves live in relative comfort,
caring directly for the needs of their Mulan masters. Those
consigned to the mines rarely survive a year of scratching
metals from the unforgiving Underdark.

COMMONERS
As a whole, commoners do not have much better lives than
slaves do. However, they are citizens, not property, which
means they can’t be indiscriminately tortured or killed. The
Red Wizards can usually get away with such behavior, but they
usually have to invent some sort of pretext for their actions.
Commoners have a far better life expectancy than slaves
and better prospects overall. The worst jobs go to slaves, so by
default, the commoners are a slight step up. Some have even
managed to claw their way to the top of the heap, usually by
becoming successful adventurers or wealthy merchants. A few
are actually wealthier than most of the nobles and even some
Red Wizards. Most commoners are Rashemi, although there
are a few members of this class from more distant lands.

NOBLES
Most of Thay is owned by ancient noble families of Mulan de-
scent. The dividing line between a well-off Mulan commoner
and an impoverished Mulan lord is starkly defined by ances-
try. Certain Mulan families are noble, and others aren’t. The
nobles of Thay are content to be governed by the Red Wiz-
ards (after all, the most influential mages in that order are
nobles themselves), but they jealously maintain control over
the elevation of commoners, even heroic ones, to noble status.
Nobles enjoy two paths to comfort, power, and wealth: land
and service. Wealthy nobles often own vast tracts of land and
make money by leasing it to those who reside upon it, whether
they are farmers, ranchers, or miners. Land ownership is not
restricted to the noble classes, but in practice, most land in
Thay is already owned by a noble, so it is difficult for a com-
moner to acquire land of his own.
Landless nobles (or those who simply wish to make some-
thing of themselves) often take up service in Thay’s army, bu-
reaucracy, or clergy. While any free Thayan can become a
soldier, official, or priest, leaders are most often drawn from
the ranks of well-off nobles who purchase their rank or title.
For example, in a typical Thayan garrison, the captain is a
minor landed Mulan noble, his officers are landless Mulan

nobles, and his sergeants are Rashemi veterans. The troops, of
course, are mostly Rashemi. A noble who buys a good post can
enrich himself just as easily as one who owns a great estate:
It is expected that a powerful official or highly-placed officer
will divert a certain amount of “taxes” for his own use.

THE RED WIZARDS
At an early age, noble children are carefully examined for any
signs of arcane talent. Any who are shown to have even a
small aptitude are immediately inducted into wizardry
school, followed by a long and arduous apprenticeship to a Red
Wizard. Those who survive their apprenticeship and are am-
bitious, resourceful, and talented are invited to join the Red
Wizards. Some refuse the red robes, but this is rare: Becom-
ing a Red Wizard is such an obvious path to power that the
zulkirs don’t need to recruit anyone.
The Red Wizards are the ruling class of this magocracy.
It’s
illegal for any Red Wizard to take on an apprentice of other
than Mulan blood. Some still do, however, and it’s usually an
open secret. At any given time, most Red Wizards claim up to
a dozen apprentices (in game terms, wizards who have not yet
acquired their first level in the Red Wizard prestige class),
whom they keep at one another’s throats to advance their own
schemes. Apprentices exist to serve as the master’s agents, min-
ions, and thralls. What magical training they gain in the process
is determined solely by their own ambition and initiative.

Only Red Wizards are permitted to wear red robes, their
badge of office. The penalty for posing as one is instant death
at the hands of the first Red Wizard to uncover the deception.
The Red Wizards are ruled by a council of eight zulkirs, one
representing each of the eight schools of magic. These posi-
tions are for life—the only way a zulkir would ever deign to
leave office would be feet first. Within each school exists an
elaborate pecking order, in which standing is determined by
magical ability and the patronage of more powerful wizards.
The current leader of the council is Szass Tam, the zulkir of
necromancy.
The Red Wizards are evil through and through. Their ul-
timate goal is nothing less than world domination, and they
have spent much of Thay’s history in pursuit of that effort
by military means. It’s only within the past few years that
they have set aside the ways of war in favor of more insidi-
ous, economic methods.

ECONOMY
Thay’s economy has traditionally been borne on the backs of
the vast number of slaves who are brought into the country
in chains. With the increase of trade in magic items over the
past few years, the number of slaves sold in Thay hasn’t gone
down one bit. In fact, now that Thay has enclaves in just about
every major city of Faerûn, its merchants have even more
access to slaves, and the slave population is actually growing.
Revenue from the sale of discounted magic items in the en-
claves has far exceeded expectations. Thayan merchants have
long traded their nation’s goods throughout the world, but
they are finding their wares in high demand these days. Before
the change in policy, the vast bulk of Thayan exports were raw
foodstuffs, timber—including that of the highly prized black-
wood tree—and Thayan artwork, jewelry, and crafts, mostly
fashioned by skilled slaves. Such trade continues to this day,
cementing Thay as a mercantile powerhouse.
Everyone the Thayans do business with is aware of their
horrible history and their evil ways. The prices and quality of
their wares, however, are just too good to turn down. This suits
Szass Tam and the rest of the zulkirs, who have not given up
their goal of world domination. The current plan is to use the
greed of other people as a tool against them. Bearing dis-
counted goods, Thayans should be able to work their way into
every major economy on Faerûn. Once the Red Wizards have
become entrenched in a nation, they can learn enough about
the locals to dismantle them quietly from within.
Not all the zulkirs agree with this policy. This is particu-
larly true of the more aggressive leaders such as Aznar Thrul,
as well as those who aren’t in a position to line their own pock-
ets with the wealth brought in by this new venture, such as
Zulkir Nevron of the school of conjuration. As with most
large projects in Thay, this one could be brought low at any
point by the bickering of the zulkirs.

LAW AND ORDER
Anyone, foreigner or Thayan, traveling in Thay must carry
a pass issued by a tharchion allowing the traveler to use spe-
cific roads and visit specific cities. All tharchions delegate the
task of issuing passes to minor officials and officers, which
means that a travel permit for most points can be purchased
with a suitable bribe (generally, 10 to 50 gp for foreigners).
Soldiers, messengers, and officials engaged in the perform-
ance of their duties are exempt from the requirement to
obtain permission to travel, but they generally carry tokens
of their authority.
Outsiders traveling without authorization find it difficult,
if not impossible, to move about the plateau. Patrols con-
stantly scour the roads and byways, searching for escaped
slaves (and the occasional brigand, criminal, or foreign spy).
The penalty for being caught is usually death. Those found
inside a Red Wizard’s estate, on the other hand, are in for an
even worse fate as the subject of painful magical experiments.
The laws of Thay are simple, and the penalties are brutal.
They are mostly concerned with establishing who’s in power.
The tharchions and zulkirs consult a set of tomes known as the
Library of Law when faced with a serious problem. However,
most of the time, the authorities ignore these books in favor
of expediency. These are the most important laws of Thay.

Only Red Wizards may wear red robes, so that all shall be able
to identify them instantly.
Do not steal from other Thayans or harm their belongings,
especially their slaves.
...
In 4e FRG that was changed to
The Unapproachable East
Beyond the Easting Reach lie the exotic lands folk in
the Heartlands call the Unapproachable East. Today,
this region is dominated by the dark and forbidding
land of Thay and its endless undead armies. A pall
of smoke and ash smothers the land, sometimes
extending into neighboring territories. On Thay’s
periphery lie the rugged lands of Aglarond, Rashe-
men, and Thesk. Aglarond is a land of open water
and deep woods peopled predominately by half-elves.
Feral warriors name the rolling hills and sparse pine
forests of Rashemen home. Ruled by the Iron Lord
and the mysterious Wychlaran, this land of witches
and berserkers has confidently defended its borders
for centuries. Thesk, the Gateway to the East, is the
starting point of the fabled Golden Way trade road to
far-off Shou Lung on the continent of Kara-Tur. This
land of tolerant folk is home to large numbers of civi-
lized orcs, Tuigan settlers, and Shou refugees.
While UE did have a section talking at length about "defense & warcraft" it continued the black & grey tone quoted earlier & involved mage breeding type super soldier experiments on loyal orcs. The shift to Thay being all about undead & undead armies is a bizarre shift.
★23 pages
 
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Yep, one of the simplest ways to enforce the "high levle magic is super rare" in a world.

And its similar to professional sports in real life. Talent can get you far in sports, hard work can get you far, but to get to the top levels of a sport....you need a lot of both. Same with magic, you can be the most experienced adventurer that ever did adventure, but at a certain point it takes a raw natural intelligence to grasp the concepts of high level magic.
I'm working on clarifying the way the "inborn magical talent" idea works, to add some more narrative hooks into the idea.

1) The limitation is on the strength and complexity of the spell, not the spell slot. If someone was born with 5th level talent, they could still get 9th level slots by being a wizard 10/sorcerer 10 and upcast their spells; they simply can't handle the complexity and potency of an actual 6th level spell.

2) Powerful patrons can let someone exceed their natural talents, which makes swearing your soul as a warlock or pledging to a god as a cleric (or other divine class) quite attractive to the ambitious. Generally a 1-3 level boost, with those with weaker talents getting more of a boost.

3) Similarly, some classes (like warlock and cleric, maybe others) will let a character sacrifice their magical training for levels if they've hit a wall, a wizard or bard or sorcerer who have reached their maximum spell potential can become a cleric or warlock and exchange levels in one class for levels in their new class. This creates a nice story hook of ambitious wizards choosing to becomes warlocks or cultists to an evil god for power.

4) Increasing your inborn potential is possible, with rare magic items and powerful spells. Wish, for example, can boost someone's magical potential by a level, but only once ever for that person.
 

...yeah, basically. I agree with @DEFCON 1 : unless you come up with a specific reason otherwise, most fantasy settings should look very different than they do given what they have to work with on the supernatural front. Medieval stasis does not IMO make logical sense most of the time.
I don't think most settings really do the work to establish why they don't, which is unfortunate, but I think a lot of reasons can exist; any or all of these might apply to a specific setting.

1) Magical potential is limited. This is the Eberron approach (and the approach I'm putting some math to in this thread). Learning some magic is fairly easy, but learning higher level spells is near impossible except for one in many millions outliers. Possibly a function of genetics/biology, or the magical "field" of the world simply is tuned low. (Possibly deific influence or the Draconic Prophecy in Eberron's case.)

2) Magical potential is rare. Having the spark to become an arcane caster of any sort, or being chosen by the gods/spirits/etc, is simply a very rare event. Magic isn't prevalent because hardly anyone can do it. This is sort of implied by a good amount of D&D-ish settings, but not always enforced with care. (Wizards are rare, but every major city has a magic school?)

3) Low population density. Specifically targetting learnable/replicable arcane magic (wizard/artificer stuff), the population might not be high enough to support a curriculum of finding and educating budding arcanists.

4) Deific or cultural edicts. Various temples, nobles, gods, etc., might frown on magical ability as a destablizing (or evil) activity, thus making penetration of magical development unlikely.

5) Magic as destablizing force. Magic, as something unnatural or alien, could attract unwanted attention from their larger world. Monsters could be drawn to arcane energy, thus putting cultures with arcane traditions at risk if they escalate their magic use in defending themselves from these threats.

There's definitely others, but that seems like a good starting list for stuff I've seen in various fantasy works over the years.
 

I don't think most settings really do the work to establish why they don't, which is unfortunate, but I think a lot of reasons can exist; any or all of these might apply to a specific setting.

1) Magical potential is limited. This is the Eberron approach (and the approach I'm putting some math to in this thread). Learning some magic is fairly easy, but learning higher level spells is near impossible except for one in many millions outliers. Possibly a function of genetics/biology, or the magical "field" of the world simply is tuned low. (Possibly deific influence or the Draconic Prophecy in Eberron's case.)

2) Magical potential is rare. Having the spark to become an arcane caster of any sort, or being chosen by the gods/spirits/etc, is simply a very rare event. Magic isn't prevalent because hardly anyone can do it. This is sort of implied by a good amount of D&D-ish settings, but not always enforced with care. (Wizards are rare, but every major city has a magic school?)

3) Low population density. Specifically targetting learnable/replicable arcane magic (wizard/artificer stuff), the population might not be high enough to support a curriculum of finding and educating budding arcanists.

4) Deific or cultural edicts. Various temples, nobles, gods, etc., might frown on magical ability as a destablizing (or evil) activity, thus making penetration of magical development unlikely.

5) Magic as destablizing force. Magic, as something unnatural or alien, could attract unwanted attention from their larger world. Monsters could be drawn to arcane energy, thus putting cultures with arcane traditions at risk if they escalate their magic use in defending themselves from these threats.

There's definitely others, but that seems like a good starting list for stuff I've seen in various fantasy works over the years.
As you've said, these reasons are very rarely spelled out, or even suggested in the text, making the whole setting sometimes feel a little forced. I mean, how hard is to just say that people with strong magical potential are rare? The 1e and 2e DMGs managed it.
 

Power and stability can encourage medieval stasis to persist even though most parts of most settings don't establish any conditions for it to happen. The Edo period was pretty much cultural and technological stasis lasting for a period of about 260 years. There were a few factors that contributed to maintaining that and it makes a good example.

Firstly you had the obvious relatable group of nobility types who owned everything and had most of the money... Where that took a wildly different flavor was in the alternative residence requirements that required them to spend half the year in Edo rather than their own territory. That alternative residence resulted in the unusual situation where noble A could regularly interact with far off nobles B &:C on addition to nobles Q X Y &Z even though they might be multiple regions apart with relatively unique territories.

Next you had the warrior class... It was wild & I'll just quote google
During the Edo period in Japan, the warrior class (samurai) faced strict restrictions on displaying overt wealth, with their primary income often coming from a fixed rice stipend from their lord, meaning even if a merchant class became wealthy, samurai were expected to maintain a simple lifestyle to uphold their social status and not flaunt their wealth, even if they accumulated some; this was part of the rigid social hierarchy where their role was primarily military service, not economic gain.
Huzzah the warrior class is kept happy and comfortable enough to avoid any serious unrest and simultaneously prevented from coming into conflict with monied interests who they very much had every reason to keep in power.

The peasants had a lot of the usual peasant restrictions like strict restrictions on weapons and such along with travel restrictions that effectively required a permit to travel outside the area where they lived

Foreigners were pretty much banned and is why you see things like Ringo telling mizu "we are the same" in Blue eyed samurai when one has no hands and the other is simply of half English descent.

All of that lasted up until the English did a bunch of things to destabilize and overthrow the whole thing for economic reasons.

In a lot of fantasy settings, especially ones with d&d type magic, you could add on the fact that the landed monied nobility with power were also the ones in the best position to be the walking WMD warrior class who just needed to keep the lesser landless warrior former adventurer types happy enough with the right level of pruning that avoids letting them get too uppity in ways that could destabilize things... That's where adventurers prove their usefulness by delving secret "dungeon" facilities nobody can claim being useful & continue being so when it comes time to prune lawless unchecked bbeg types who stepped out of line. Things get pretty dark pretty quick and show why the retired adventurer in charge of the town's security had to hire five different bands of plucky inexperienced adventures to deal with the trivial undead/goblin problem just outside of town before one succeeded.

Knowing what just to the last guy who stood a bit too tall it gives those adventures every reason to travel far off where nobody cares about them & remain quiet enough or find a powerful bit of nobility to hook their own fortunes to with support. Conveniently that also creates plenty of "fallen" civilization/ruins filled with wealth hidden out in the wilderness waiting to be found once their former adventurer turned would be Lord is eliminated and their peasants reclaimed killed or experimented onto create monsters dangerous enough to stop some orphaned prince from reclaiming their fallen homeland.

If some new bit of destabilizing magiech or tech comes aging it's easy for the upper tiers of power to limit it and knowledge of how to make it to themselves or those under thumb enough that's well placed adventurer or proper magical mind wipe could ensure that it quickly becomes a relic that was created using methods lost to time as far as anyone not in the know might think. Worst case a noble can give a fresh band of adventures the same treatment as black mirror against the fire treatment and send them off to deal with a dangerous get of roaches goblins or whatever and send some red wizard types out to clean things up so the survivors remember how those awful roaches Goblins murdered all of those villagers they used to live with up until that raid or just set lose some monsters like yet another cemetery crypt exploding with hostile undead
 

In a lot of fantasy settings, especially ones with d&d type magic, you could add on the fact that the landed monied nobility with power were also the ones in the best position to be the walking WMD warrior class who just needed to keep the lesser landless warrior former adventurer types happy enough with the right level of pruning that avoids letting them get too uppity in ways that could destabilize things... That's where adventurers prove their usefulness by delving secret "dungeon" facilities nobody can claim being useful & continue being so when it comes time to prune lawless unchecked bbeg types who stepped out of line. Things get pretty dark pretty quick and show why the retired adventurer in charge of the town's security had to hire five different bands of plucky inexperienced adventures to deal with the trivial undead/goblin problem just outside of town before one succeeded.
This is semi-explicit in my campaign. The availability of alchemy, kindly grandmothers, and hedge wizards allows for an infant mortality approaching modernity. However, there are monsters out there, and excess population looking for some easy wealth heads out to cull the monsters. Which, amazingly enough, culls the excess population. But, some make it back. This creates stories that inspire the third sons and daughters. And the cycle repeats.
 

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