What if all skills were allowed as class skills for all classes?

[humble minion]

Instead of making all skills class skills, I make all skills cost 1 skill point. However, the max ranks for class/cross-class skills still apply.

I was thinking exactly the same. Doing this doesn't threaten the 'niches' of rogues, bards, rangers, etc, but still allows PCs of other classes to be moderately competent in non-standard skills without having to blow huge numbers of skill points. It just allows for a bit more variation and personalisation between characters, and allows PCs to be a bit more individually competent. It's a bit tricky balancing challenges when (for instance) the rogue has Hide +17 and everyone else in the party is at +3...

 

[Herobizkit]

I've found that Blue Rose does more or less that very same thing. I would definitely change the spread; any warrior classes to 4 pts, spell-casters to 6, and leave the rogue (and give the bard) 8 skill pts. Then they can freely pick from whatever skill list they choose.

If you still wanted to maintain a traditional "theme", you could bring back restricted skills, or have some skills be prerequisites for others... although that would be a logistics nightmare.

 

[Dragonhelm]

What do you guys think of the way skills are handled with the Unearthed Arcana generic classes?

I would like Int not to modify skill points. Makes math a pain, especially for statting wizards who get Int boosts as they level.

Has anyone tried this approach?

It would make it much easier for all characters to learn multiple languages/level. Only Bards have speak language as a class skill (IIRC), so Rogues with a 14 Int could now learn 10 languages/level.

Personally, I think languages should be kept separate from skills.

 

[isoChron]

We play with all skills are class skills for all classes since 3 years or so. Never been a balance problem. DM is happy because it's easier to build NPCs. Players are happy because they can do something with their skillpoints to improve the character.
Some PrCs may be within reach earlier, but we haven't encountered a problem until today.

 

[arscott]

There are only a couple of skills that I see becoming problematic:

Tumble--There's a tradeoff between defense and mobility that becomes an important aspect of class balance. If heavily-armored characters gain easy access to tumble, that balance is tweaked a bit. The basic tumble DC is low enough that armored characters can take advantage of it despite their Armor Check penalties.

Fortunately, you're not allowed to tumble if you're being slowed by heavier armors. Unfortunately, there are was of getting around this--In the core rules, dwarves aren't slowed by armor, and mithral medium armors count as light for movement purposes.

Spot, Listen, and Sense motive--Making these skills widely available has the potential to nerf the skills they oppose. Consider: In order to make a bluff check, you have to oppose the sense motive check of everyone listening. When only one or two characters have the sense motive score to detect your bluff, then bluffing is a reasonable option. But if everyone within earshot has a good sense motive score, at least one of the listeners will roll higher than you almost every time, making bluff nearly useless.

 

[fusangite]

I think we'd see a lot more tumbling high-int fighters in masterwork chain shirts, and a lot more magic device using sorcerors and, to a lesser extend, wizards. I think we'd see a few loss rogues and a lot fewer bards. I also think that a lot more people would get stabilized in combat by other fellow PCs than by clerics.

 

[rgard]

I don't think it'd make that big of a difference. Wizards, and other Int-based classes would see the biggest jump (as well as gain the ability to jump, for that matter). If a regular fighter wants to put his paltry 2 skill points into Sense Motive or Tumble, I really don't think it'll break the game. But a Wizard with max ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Spot and Tumble, in addition to his normal skills of Concentration and Know: Arcana, that is a pretty significant jump, especially at low to mid levels, compared to the characters without heavy Int-bonuses to spend.

Tumble for a Wizard is great.

 

[blargney the second]

If you want no-one to play a rogue then it would be fine.

I can anecdotally disprove that conclusion: rogues still get played as much as any other class in our games. We have all skills as class skills and an extra +2 skill points per level for everybody. People still play rogues, ninjae, and scouts plenty.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

This would kind of take some of the awesome away from the few PrCs (and the Factotum) that already get all skills as class skills. Would you compensate by giving them more skill points per level?

Then again, I've got a weird group of players, who all complain about the skill system; especially Intimidate. They're convinced it should be based off Strength instead of Charisma.

Iron Heroes skill groups are awesome, and should be used as often as possible.

Enough derailing from me. I vote no, just because of those few things that already get all skills as class skills.

-TRRW

 

[Mouseferatu]

I've been ignoring cross-class skill rules in my campaigns for years, and it's never proved a problem.