D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[James Gasik]

It's funny. Everyone keeps telling me that the caster imbalance is this big thing in 5e, and yet, when I asked about the top damage dealers in the game, most people tell me that it's the non-casters that are the top guns.

That's because there are metrics other than damage?

Consider the most powerful Fighter in the game. Four attacks per turn, bonus action attack, multiple Action Surges. Once Forcecage and he is completely useless for an hour. No save. 1500 gp is rather trivial when you're slinging 7th level spells.

You might say "ah, but it doesn't kill him!". And you're right. It doesn't. But now his damage potential is meaningless in an encounter, and his allies must do battle without him. Maybe they survive! Maybe they don't. Maybe one of the casters can find a way to free him.

But I trust my point is made.

 

[James Gasik]

This tweet is so weird.

Why should any and every character concept be allowed in a game like D&D which is representing a specific slice of the fantasy genre?

What specific slice is that? We have adventures on other planes of reality, flying ships that travel through...well, not space, but something like it. You can encounter dragons, unicorns, creatures from beyond the veil of reality, demons, angels, people shooting you with muskets, and anthropomorphic turtle men.

As near as I can tell, D&D is basically a restaurant buffet of all fantasy.

 

[Scribe]

That's because there are metrics other than damage?

Consider the most powerful Fighter in the game. Four attacks per turn, bonus action attack, multiple Action Surges. Once Forcecage and he is completely useless for an hour. No save. 1500 gp is rather trivial when you're slinging 7th level spells.

You might say "ah, but it doesn't kill him!". And you're right. It doesn't. But now his damage potential is meaningless in an encounter, and his allies must do battle without him. Maybe they survive! Maybe they don't. Maybe one of the casters can find a way to free him.

But I trust my point is made.

I've always felt this is one of the root issues.

Some want the Fighter to be independent of the party/magic item's.

Some want teamwork and Magic items to play a heavy role.

Other than the Mundane/Super Hero conversation I always feel it boils down to this...

 

[Thomas Shey]

Let’s save rolls like that for weapons.

That's not responsive to my answer to your statement. If you don't like die pool resolution, just say so, but that "faux die roll" business was just playing the dozens on the idea, not really providing any critique.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If 1d20 is too swingy and 3d6 is too static, split the difference with 2d10! Which does schew the numbers SLIGHTLY upward, but eh.

Well, doing a non-linear roll for D&D would require reworking a number of things most likely to work right (saves come to mind) anyway, but a dislike of big linear die roll systems is still legit, and someone can very well want that rework. It strikes me as a strange thing to have again 5e specifically, since D&D has been a big-linear-die system for 47 years now, but there you are.

 

[Thomas Shey]

What specific slice is that? We have adventures on other planes of reality, flying ships that travel through...well, not space, but something like it. You can encounter dragons, unicorns, creatures from beyond the veil of reality, demons, angels, people shooting you with muskets, and anthropomorphic turtle men.

As near as I can tell, D&D is basically a restaurant buffet of all fantasy.

Though you can very much question whether without significant modification it represents many of them very well. Its actually pretty much crap out the gate at doing sword-and-sorcery for example.

 

[Oofta]

That's because there are metrics other than damage?

Consider the most powerful Fighter in the game. Four attacks per turn, bonus action attack, multiple Action Surges. Once Forcecage and he is completely useless for an hour. No save. 1500 gp is rather trivial when you're slinging 7th level spells.

You might say "ah, but it doesn't kill him!". And you're right. It doesn't. But now his damage potential is meaningless in an encounter, and his allies must do battle without him. Maybe they survive! Maybe they don't. Maybe one of the casters can find a way to free him.

But I trust my point is made.

Consider the all powerful wizard in the anti-magic zone of a beholder. They're helpless. Or suppose the wizard i trapped by that forcecage but doesn't have teleportation capability or fails their charisma save. Still helpless.

Gotcha scenarios go both ways.

But I trust my point is made.

 

[James Gasik]

Though you can very much question whether without significant modification it represents many of them very well. Its actually pretty much crap out the gate at doing sword-and-sorcery for example.

Well, maybe not. I mean, the game does function without spellcasters or magic items. Maybe not super well, but I have heard people say they run all-martial parties in 5e. I haven't seen one myself, and maybe it can't be done in all tiers of play, but I could imagine at least Tier 3 being doable.

 

[James Gasik]

Consider the all powerful wizard in the anti-magic zone of a beholder. They're helpless. Or suppose the wizard i trapped by that forcecage but doesn't have teleportation capability or fails their charisma save. Still helpless.

Gotcha scenarios go both ways.

But I trust my point is made.

It wasn't a gotcha scenario at all. It was simply showing that damage is not the only metric to consider when comparing martials to casters. Yes, of course there are instances that shut down a caster as well as a martial character. But the caster has more potential options. And they have tools that can do very powerful things that don't involve dealing hit point damage.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, maybe not. I mean, the game does function without spellcasters or magic items. Maybe not super well, but I have heard people say they run all-martial parties in 5e. I haven't seen one myself, and maybe it can't be done in all tiers of play, but I could imagine at least Tier 3 being doable.

Being "doable" and doing it well are different things.