D&D 5E (2014) What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Undrave]

To answer OP: The Wizard.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm not minimizing it, but it's very clearly an (over)reaction to the old guard's dissatisfaction with 4E. It was clear in the playtest too, where the barrier for exclusion was so low a few complainers could keep something out that they'd never themselves play. "Don't let them order a salad"

100% agree and I hope that 6e will be slowly more 4e like

 

[FitzTheRuke]

100% agree and I hope that 6e will be slowly more 4e like

Me too (in certain specific ways) but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Can it not be successful because it's good? It's by far my favorite edition. The people I talked into playing all ended up loving it.

I can totally see that someone might favor another edition. I can even see someone would question data.

But this discussion has been a master class in…something.

Let’s see:

1. WOTC purposely hid flaws to trick people

2. The success is a fluke and it’s only a matter of time (a Decade plus, apparently) until the wheels come off

3. It was made by haterz! Who sabotaged some mechanics due to reasons and agendas. And no one knows any better

4. People just haven’t had long enough with the game. Despite its ongoing success, people are leaving in droves due to detection of hidden flaws, finally

5. People just don’t know better. They will see how limited they are if they just spend a little more time with it and defect.

6. Lucky marketing and world events made it successful.

Or….

It has been well received and well liked. Look at the data and be the judge.

I am not even offering a conclusion of my own in this post, just putting some of the assertions in the thread here.

 

[Malmuria]

For all these reasons it makes sense to me for the core game to be a “basic” level 1-10 game with more “advanced” supplements taking the game to 20 for those interested.

 

[Vaalingrade]

People not knowing any better and good marketing keeping it that way is the secret to success of most products throughout human history. People like to see the 'market' as a logical actor when it is, in fact a drunken toddler, primed for the rattling keys of the Guy From Marketing.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is what's going on with 5e, it's just that 'The Market is Wise' or whatever is a bad argument period.

 

[billd91]

Can it not be successful because it's good? It's by far my favorite edition. The people I talked into playing all ended up loving it.

I think in some cases it's because that would acknowledge things that are not acknowledgeable.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

People not knowing any better and good marketing keeping it that way is the secret to success of most products throughout human history. People like to see the 'market' as a logical actor when it is, in fact a drunken toddler, primed for the rattling keys of the Guy From Marketing.

I can't go into detail... because I want to keep my job... BUT I can tell you that a corporate officer said something very close to this but with a darker turn. This is NOT something that big companies do not know.

 

[Malmuria]

People not knowing any better and good marketing keeping it that way is the secret to success of most products throughout human history. People like to see the 'market' as a logical actor when it is, in fact a drunken toddler, primed for the rattling keys of the Guy From Marketing.

I wouldn’t say that people who like 5e simply don’t know any better. One of the faults of the idea of “good” design (in any field) is that it takes particular solutions to be universal. What to one person might be tight, complex, player-facing game design might be overly elaborate or get in the way of another persons playstyle.

In other words, some players might love their Dragonborn hexblade sordinlock but want moar customization through feats and other players (I’ve seen plenty of them) are good with “elf with bow” as their entire character concept for an entire campaign

 

[Campbell]

It's undeniable that 5e has extremely broad appeal due to a combination of great marketing, solid game design and hitting just the right nostalgic notes to bring back old fans who had not played in years. It's damn good at what it does, but there are limits to what it does.

There is absolutely no need to place the game on a pedestal above other games. That's where a lot of this pushback comes from. Not acknowledging that other games that were not as commercially successful can still be just as good at what they do.

Honestly a lot of this mentality does the game disservice. It makes it hard to be a fan of 5e and other games. The constant sideswiping of alternatives and my game can do anything your game can do better crap almost make me not want to be a part of the community.