What, If Anything, Might be Wrong with the Warblade?

[Nail]

Thats what I thought. Now..Give a Fighter or a Paladin the same progression as a Warblade and see if they match up.

I'm not clear what you are suggesting here.

Give a Ftr -- in addition to his normal class abilities -- manuevers and stances at the same levels and numbers as a Warblade......?

 

[DungeonMaester]

I'm not clear what you are suggesting here.

Give a Ftr -- in addition to his normal class abilities -- manuevers and stances at the same levels and numbers as a Warblade......?

Yes.

---Rusty

 

[Slaved]

One of the big factors boils down to a question of gear. Does the DM make it easy to swap out gear? Hard? How expenisve? Etc.

Yes and no.

But I already covered that earlier really.

Still, if a dm is going to not allow any retraining options (and there are quite a few out there) and not allow anyone to upgrade/buy/change/exchange items and is going to also make sure that really important items are not along your very focused path....... well, I would say that the chances are good such a dm would not allow the feat you are proposing anyway.

But, if you can retrain in some way and/or if you can upgrade/buy/change/exchange and/or if the dm does tend to make those really important items just happen to be of the appropriate type then the majority of the time the feat would be a waste of a slot.

The reason for the Ftr requirement is simple: It's all about the Ftr role.

I disagree. Being able to swap out equipment and whatever else is a role that everyone could be able to use. The fighter is not special there. I do not even see why he should be counted as special enough to warrant any feats with a fighter only tag, regardless.

 

[Nail]

... if you can retrain in some way and/or if you can upgrade/buy/change/exchange and/or if the dm does tend to make those really important items just happen to be of the appropriate type then the majority of the time the feat would be a waste of a slot.

If the DM customizes the found gear to fit the PCs, you are absolutely right.

 

[Nail]

Yes.

And this would be a good idea because....__________.

 

[DungeonMaester]

And this would be a good idea because....__________.

They both have there own set of class abilities out side Stance/maneuvers. So if it is balanced there should be no problem if a Fighter could do the same S/M as a Warblade.

---Rusty

 

[Slaved]

If the DM customizes the found gear to fit the PCs, you are absolutely right.

Or if people can buy equipment.
Or if people can upgrade equipment.
Or if people can trade equipment.
Or if people can retrain using one of the many different ways to do so.

I am not sure when it would be good to take as a feat and allowed but I cannot imagine the number of instances being a very large compared to the sheer number of ways it would not be.

 

[castro3nw]

WRT is so incredibly brokenly powerful that it is easily worth their 12th-level feat, though.

I hate to wander back to this days later... But I was thinking about it, and remembered today that WRT has a prereq of one White Raven maneuver. So, really it's not whether it's worth you're one 12th level feat.

The question is "Is it worth your 12th level feat and a previous feat, used to gain a White Raven maneuver w/o a prereq?"

Then, if you do that.. You can only take Martial Study 3 times, and each time you take it you get the class skill associated with the school of the maneuver you picked. So you're in a sense also giving up a potential class skill, since you gain no skill when you pick up WRT.

And don't forget, if they don't have a recovery method when they take the feat, they can only WRT 1/encounter anyway.

Honestly, if you feel you absolutely must nerf WRT though... My best suggestion is simply declaring that no one can gain more than one extra turn with it in a single initiative round.

Really though... Playtest it and see how it works in practice. It's easy to abuse on paper, but a little tougher to wreak havoc with in game.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I hate to wander back to this days later... But I was thinking about it, and remembered today that WRT has a prereq of one White Raven maneuver. So, really it's not whether it's worth you're one 12th level feat.

The question is "Is it worth your 12th level feat and a previous feat, used to gain a White Raven maneuver w/o a prereq?"

Then, if you do that.. You can only take Martial Study 3 times, and each time you take it you get the class skill associated with the school of the maneuver you picked. So you're in a sense also giving up a potential class skill, since you gain no skill when you pick up WRT.

And don't forget, if they don't have a recovery method when they take the feat, they can only WRT 1/encounter anyway.

Honestly, if you feel you absolutely must nerf WRT though... My best suggestion is simply declaring that no one can gain more than one extra turn with it in a single initiative round.

Really though... Playtest it and see how it works in practice. It's easy to abuse on paper, but a little tougher to wreak havoc with in game.

It's easy to abuse it in an actual game too. And yeah, I was assuming that you would also pick up another manoeuvre. It doesn't matter. When the 6-person party mentioned earlier in this thread has everyone pick it up, they automatically win. You don't need any "theory". All you need is to have every character use their swift action to make the group nova-specialist (Psions are scary-good for this) go right after them. If the enemy isn't dead by the end of the first round using this strategy (often before it can go), then it probably is impossible for the group to kill. I don't know anything that can survive six rounds of beating from a well-built Psion in one round.

 

[hong]

I don't know anything that can survive six rounds of beating from a well-built Psion in one round.

"Love is six rounds of squishing sounds" -- a well-built psion