What if every class worked the same way?

[Anabstercorian]

What if every class worked like the fighter? A bonus feat at 1st level and another bonus feat every even level? Fighters get weapon and combat feats, monks get ki and mobility feats, rangers get survival and wilderness feats, rogues get rogue feats, wizards get spell-feats...

What would that be like?

 

[Crothian]

You'd have to get rid of all the special abilities of the classes and make them all feats at the very least.

 

[Tonguez]

Hey I'm working on this and yes all the abilities are changed into feats (and feat chains) with some having particular prereqs to account for 'strong abilities'

I've even gone as far as to turn Spells and Spellcasting into Feats!

I say it would be a wonderful thing...

 

[Wormwood]

Hey I'm working on this and yes all the abilities are changed into feats (and feat chains) with some having particular prereqs to account for 'strong abilities'

I've even gone as far as to turn Spells and Spellcasting into Feats!

I say it would be a wonderful thing...

I don;t know about wonderful...since the math is killing me!

Yeah, I'm working on it. It's taking forever, and I don;t even think it's OGL compliant, but I'll post my 'true classless D&D' as soon as it's done.

 

[Agback]

What if every class worked like the fighter? A bonus feat at 1st level and another bonus feat every even level? Fighters get weapon and combat feats, monks get ki and mobility feats, rangers get survival and wilderness feats, rogues get rogue feats, wizards get spell-feats...

What would that be like?

You would, essentially, be saying that there are tradeoffs between saving throw bonuses, hit-point dice, and skill points, but no trade-offs between those things and feats.

Why not go for a true classless D&D in which the players get a choice of goodies from among various-sized hit dice, skill points, feats, and saving-throw bonuses?

Regards,


Agback

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Let's see... A way to make D&D 3E "classless"...

The problems are the abilities that are defined by class. Especially BAB, Saving Throws, Class skills and Skill points. Perhaps we can define everything as Skills and Feats?

1. Change Attacks into skills. Make them something similar to the Craft or Knowledge skills. The Melee Attack skill would be based off of Strength, and the Ranged Attack skill would be based off of Dexterity. You would pick a category of weapons for each skill. For example, Melee Attack (swords), Melee Attack (axes), or Ranged Attack (bows). The problem is that AC would have to be revamped.

2. Change Saving Throws into skills. Use the same method as we do for Attacks.

3. Class Skills. Allow a character to pick whatever class skills they want. The number of "talents" they can pick could be based on their Charisma modifier, thereby making it a more useful ability.

4. All special class abilities could be quickly turned into feats.

5. Skill points. Since everything would be based on skills, you'd have to increase the base number of skill points.

I'm not cetain of the details, but it's an idea.

 

[Tonguez]

Okay the base I'm working with is every character has

HD 4 (I'm actually using a VP/WP system so HD = VP)
24+int skill points (ie 6 base pts)
10 Feats

Skills divided into three categories Basic (cost 1pt), Expert (2 pts) and Master (3pts) some skills become feat dependent eg Melee Attack, Use Magic Device (requires Magery feat) etc

BAb is a Master skill with a feat applied to each weapon type (eg Melee Attack Sword (simple))
Saves are Master skills
I'm also using a defense skill (adds to AC or actively to d20 active defense check vs opponents attack)

HP can be riased with the Toughness feat (HP+2)
Skills can be raised with Training Feat (+d4 skill points)

example character

HP 4
Skills 24/21/15

BAb +1 Defense +0
Fort +2 Will +0, Refl +0


1 Toughness +2 (hp 6)
2 Toughness +2 (hp 8)
3 Toughness +2 (hp 10)
4 Toughness +2 (hp 12)
5 Simple Weapons (Melee) - Attack Skill
6 Simple Weapons (Ranged)
7 Martial Weapons (Melee)
8 Light Armour
9 Fast Movement
10 Rage

So Colin the Barbarian
VP d4+8 (9 -12) WP 16 (con) HP (VP+WP) 25 - 28
BAb +1 Def +0 (AC = 10+def+dex+ar)
Skill Points: 15
Proficiencies: Simple Weapons (melee), Simple weapons (ranged), Martial weapons (melee)
Feats: Rage, Fast Movement +10'
Speed 40

I considering a leveless sytem to instead giving 1 Feat for each 2000XP

But anyway this is just draft and it needs LOTS of work and then playtesting...

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I think what you are looking for is Kepri's class construction engine. You can find it on the electronic aids page.

 

[JDRay]

...or Red Leaf Games' dLiberation20 system. Actually, it almost looks as if you used their system here. Not that I think you did, just that you're that close.

 

[Mutantfrog]

I've actually been working on a system a little bit like this for a couple of days now, and I have almost everything in the PHB converted quite well.
First level stats are pretty similar to Tonguez's. I say all character get d8 hit dice, because the MM says that that's what humans get. 16 skill points (+4 times int modifier) and 7 feats at level 1 (neither value is quite definite), and 3 points to put into base saving throws. Every level after that is 4 skill points, 3 feats, and 1 point of saving throw (capped at level/2 + 2, which is the same as a good saving throw in core rules).
Everything else is converted into feats, including BAB and spellcasting and all class features. I've done almost everything from the PHB so far except for Monks, which I think need to be based on the psionics rules (most of their supernatural special abilities are, or should be, psionic feats)

If anyone is interested I'll probably post the entire document on a web site soon. And by the way, I believe it is fully OGL compliant, since I'm only drawing on material in the core d20 rules, and it also doesn't change the base rules, technically it could be treated as one highly customizable class, without changing any underlying mechanics. Characters in my system are almost balanced at the same level as standard characters and can recreate most of the same traits.