What if only Wee Jas and Erythnul?

[Elder-Basilisk]

So you're saying that the people of the various historical empires would not have worshiped their imperial cults or state religions if they didn't have other religious options available? That seems a bit far-fetched to me. The line between religion and magic is blurry enough that I expect that magicians and witch doctors could handily take care of the parts of what you are referring to as common man religion that the OP's main two gods couldn't.

What matter if you call it worshipping the rain goddess or appeasing the air spirits (who are not gods) when you cut the chicken's head off and spray its blood across the first furrow? Does it matter whether you call the man who leads the ritual a magician or a priest? If you want a more traditional fertility ritual, does it matter whether you lay with the temple prostitute or scatter your seed with the witch? Cosmologically, of course it matters. A rain goddess is a very different matter than the spirits of the air and sacrificing your seed to the goddess of fertility is a different matter than offering it as the material component in a spell. But, it seems to me that you're fulfilling the common man's perceived need for folk religion either way. (To the extent that the common man strictly needs folk religion--history certainly demonstrates that such practices vary in commonality and importance from time to time and from place to place).

Because none of those choices were the only available religious options available, which is not the case in the OP's campaign model. In all of those cultures, there was also an object of worship that appealed to the common man, a system of belief that promised them a future reward for their present suffering, or both.

I'm approaching worship from the standpoint of someone who's lived in a non-Christian portion of the third world, where religion and spirituality are massively important parts of daily life. No "essentially Christian perspective" at all.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So you're saying that the people of the various historical empires would not have worshiped their imperial cults or state religions if they didn't have other religious options available?

No, I'm not saying that.

What matter if you call it worshipping the rain goddess or appeasing the air spirits (who are not gods) when you cut the chicken's head off and spray its blood across the first furrow? Does it matter whether you call the man who leads the ritual a magician or a priest? If you want a more traditional fertility ritual, does it matter whether you lay with the temple prostitute or scatter your seed with the witch? Cosmologically, of course it matters. A rain goddess is a very different matter than the spirits of the air and sacrificing your seed to the goddess of fertility is a different matter than offering it as the material component in a spell. But, it seems to me that you're fulfilling the common man's perceived need for folk religion either way. (To the extent that the common man strictly needs folk religion--history certainly demonstrates that such practices vary in commonality and importance from time to time and from place to place).

This is all very interesting but has nothing to do what I've ever posted on this thread.

 

[Particle_Man]

Planar-wise, one option is to keep the inner planes, but eliminate ALL outer planes except the Abyss.

Souls that are not taken care of by the Grey Lady go to the Abyss, regardless of their moral status. Thus one in the know can either a) Back the Grey Lady to the hilt, to keep one's soul in this world and away from the Abyss, or b) Serve Erythnul and hope to be so evil and depraved that one will be "elevated" in status as a demon, rather than merely a tormented soul (The "Anakin killing the Younglings option" ).

One who is not in the know might not realize that failing to worship the Grey Lady dooms one, but doomed one would still be.

Thus one could be part of a "missionary" group from the Grey Lady, trying to convince a CN cult of "freedom" that they are being fooled into worshipping the Many and are doomed without submitting to the Lady's will. One could also do the same with those who worship in other ways.

Not sure I would go the "get magic from the Green" middle ground. I kind of like the bipolar idea, so would just have druids be CN or NE and get power from The Many. I suppose one *might* have some LN druids that serve the Grey Lady.

I am also thinking that the Church of Wee Jas might be well aware that some of its members (a minority) are much better at healing, while others (the majority) are better at necromancy. Being a lawful church, there would likely be a place for either, and both might be respected in their fields (similar to people at a university having different majors).

 

[Nyaricus]

Outer Planes and the Creation of Life.

We need a backstory to this setting already. Like, what led up to the world As We Know It (tm). I'm thinking the following loose set of events:

1. Nothingness. Oblivion. Then comes Chaos.
2. Chaos, a swirling, whirlwind of discord, fills the primodial void.
3. Then, two things happen:
3A. Something, a sort of form or being forms from the chaos, and
3B. The rest of the chaos stays... chaotic, I suppose.
4. The form spreads, bringing order to this chaos and creating the multiverse as we know it.
5. Soon, a thousands of planes of existance form from this being of order.
6. After this, the two beings of chaos and order form into what we know as gods. They fight a bitter battle, with chaos destroying all of the planes, save one (the prime material). In this battle, Chaos Bled in Law's material plane and the first races rise from this. Law also spills it's blood into Chaos and a malign plane we know as the Abyss is formed. Magic arises from this battle and the multiverse is filled with this energy.
7. From this, many peoples rise and fall on either planes, and eventually we arrive to this point in time. Erythnul wishes to destroy all life and everything even if it takes him with it, and Wee Jas strives to keep her share and stave off Erythnuls influence. They are completely self-serving and not above anything to get at each other.

so, whatcha think??

 

[I'm A Banana]

Whizbang, let's try this:

When you die, you are sent to a realm of eternal rage and suffering where your body is twisted into new shapes for the amusement of a capricious god.

The only way to avoid this fate is to cling to a stern and demanding goddess, because she can cause you to live on as an Undead servant or as a spirit in this world. Through devotion to her, you assure yourself immortality of a sort.

Your crops are part of her power, being "reborn" from the soil every year, eternity, like she promises. And from the forest, servants of that twisted god come and destroy your fields, burning them, killing and raping your family. The way to protect yourself is to pay homage to this stern goddess, who may then protect you (feudal lord style).

She is not compassionate....she will not care for your sick, she will not heal your wounds, she is not interested in improving your lot in this life much. She is not an ideal to live up to, merely a tool you may use -- the only tool available to keep the forest barbarians at bay. She can grant those who are particularly loyal unending life, either as a spirit, or in your own flesh -- enough heroes of old still live today to make it a possibility.

*******

And as for adventure ideas, you mostly have to think of opposing Erythnul's slaughter on behalf of Wee Jas. Civilization is under siege from wave after wave of goblinoids and orcs, so there's that classic idea. Since Erythnul is kind of (in my mind) becoming the Wilderness God, too, that brings up the potential of animal stampedes or strangely behaving beasts into the mix, as well.

Depending on how you want it to go, the following could be good central plots:

-- Wee Jas's temples are falling slowly to the goblinoid hoardes. Only finding an ancient hero, locked away in his tomb in disgrace when he defied his goddess, can offer a hope of survival.

-- A rebel city has crushed their vampire overlord, angry at having to offer sacrifices. The PC's serve as a peacekeeping force, coming in with a new overlord, subduing the peasants...and stopping Erythnul from gaining a foothold. This works well if you want some tough moral issues to be faced.

-- Old temples to the Gray Lady abound, often burried and ruined by worshippers of the Many. Recovering McGuffins from them can be classic dungeon-crawl goodness.

etc.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Actually, given some more thought, the whole shapechange aspect of Druids works really well, and can be easily changed to aberrations! Call druids Changers instead, and rework their abilities to reflect the amorphous aberrations they take after. I think I am going to star a thread on this, in fact

I would have gone with lycanthropy, myself. Druids aren't nature-loving priests. They're werewolf shamans. I'd maybe use the Druidic Avenger variant, or exchange some of the spellcasting ability (particularly the elemental blasting spells) for better wild-shape abilities, including the ability to become a were-thing at an appropriate level.

Now I want to write that up. But I have term papers to write... Damn you, Nyaricus, for seeding my head with these awful, wonderful ideas.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

-- A rebel city has crushed their vampire overlord, angry at having to offer sacrifices. The PC's serve as a peacekeeping force, coming in with a new overlord, subduing the peasants...and stopping Erythnul from gaining a foothold. This works well if you want some tough moral issues to be faced.

For the record, I love this idea. The PCs are part of the forces of "The Devil We Know" and need to stop what are probably very attractive movements toward freedom from oppression, because they have the perspective to see that if even one stone is loosened from the wall The Lady built, the forces of madness and slaughter will pour through the gap and destroy the fools that loosened it.

You could even start the campaign with the prologue scenario. The players will play the characters who lead the coup, unaware that once this happens they'll immediately switch to playing the clean-up crew that has to come in and put down the rebellion. All the while, Erythnul's ravening hordes make small but significant noise in the background as foreshadowing to the eventual breakdown that will come if control is not re-established.

 

[Nyaricus]

I would have gone with lycanthropy, myself. Druids aren't nature-loving priests. They're werewolf shamans. I'd maybe use the Druidic Avenger variant, or exchange some of the spellcasting ability (particularly the elemental blasting spells) for better wild-shape abilities, including the ability to become a were-thing at an appropriate level.

There's a PrC in PGtF that's for the people of the Black Blood (the evil lyncanthropic group in Faerun) that you could adapt to this.

Heck, here's an idea: Take the Druidic Avenger class, seed ti with that PrC and then re-write the whole thing so that at level 20 you get the lyncanthrope template for free (much like a Dread Necromancer becomes a Lich, a monk becomes an outsider, etc). Now THAT could be a great class, full of flavour.

I think spells would have to be bumped down to a bards (or worse) level, however, but a great idea Dr. Awkward, nonetheless

Now I want to write that up. But I have term papers to write... Damn you, Nyaricus, for seeding my head with these awful, wonderful ideas.

Hey, I try. I love worldbuilding threads like this that allow me to excercise my creativity and really make something different Thanks for the compliment, in any case (btw, my buddy Brian LOVES your pugilist class )

cheers,
--N

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Hey, I try. I love worldbuilding threads like this that allow me to excercise my creativity and really make something different Thanks for the compliment, in any case (btw, my buddy Brian LOVES your pugilist class )

cheers,
--N

Well, if I'm ever through Winnipeg, I'll have to drop in for a beer and celebrate his newfound butt-kicking ability.

I'm happy to make your game better.

 

[Nyaricus]

Well, if I'm ever through Winnipeg, I'll have to drop in for a beer and celebrate his newfound butt-kicking ability.

I'm happy to make your game better.

Sounds like a plan, man

cheers,
--N