What If: The Greyhawk Wars Never Happened?

[Knightfall]

Oh man, I have been waiting for a topic like this for such a long time . . . . here's an alternate (and far better) take than what officially happened...

<snip>

So, then, is the truth of the Greyhawk Wars.

Okay, I finally got a chance to read your alternate version of the Wars. I must say it's a great description. I like how you kept the Scarlet Brotherhood clandestine.

Heh, thanks. I actually have a lot more material just like it at www.canonfire.com. Go there, enter my username into the search engine, and there you go. Treatises on every major nation in the Flanaess, analyses of the military, profiles of various rulers, takes on history, travel guides, writings on many of the major religions and races are all there for anyone who's interested.

I spend some time at Canonfire! but not as much as you, obviously. Mainly, I check there for the latest version of the Oerth Journal. but, I'll take a look for some of your articles.

 

[Knightfall]

Well, some folks didn't like it, I had no problem with it. Cause it was the only world setting I dealt with for a while. Then I heard about FR.

But I am a Greyhawker.

Change comes, when it does...and life moves on.

I never had any problems with From the Ashes. It's the only Greyhawk boxed set I currently own. (I'd had it before but had to sell it.) I'd love to get my hands on the older Greyhawk boxed sets (especially City of Greyhawk) but those are hard to find.

Like you, I'm a Greyhawker. I really like the work that Paizo did for Greyhawk. WotC tried to dumb down the setting, which I didn't like, but Paizo worked hard to keep it flavorful.

 

[Nyeshet]

In short, FtA brought a lot of unnecessary and unwelcome changes that altered the setting for the worse and screwed up many important elements of it. ... [snip] ... In keeping with the boneheaded decision-making that characterized TSR at the time, Grubb suggested that they "blow Greyhawk up".

This sounds a lot like what has happened recently with the Forgotten Realms. A lot of people I know are disgusted with what has been done to the realms to make them fit the new races, classes, magic system, and general paradigm of the new setting. Many of them simply refuse to play in the Forgotten Realms any longer. Others continue on with their variation of the campaign setting, refusing to accept anything beyond a specific point in the canon timeline (quite a few of this group choose a year before the time of troubles, actually, disliking those changes almost as much as the current ones).

It seems many settings seem to have a point like this in their canon history. Dragonlance, as I recall, has a similar issue, although I am not well enough versed in that setting to really get into that discussion.

 

[CruelSummerLord]

Okay, I finally got a chance to read your alternate version of the Wars. I must say it's a great description. I like how you kept the Scarlet Brotherhood clandestine.


I spend some time at Canonfire! but not as much as you, obviously. Mainly, I check there for the latest version of the Oerth Journal. but, I'll take a look for some of your articles.

Thanks. I should admit that my initial portrayal of the Brotherhood is somewhat inconsistent, as the Hold of the Sea Princes were plagued by slave revolts and infiltration by the Scarlet Sign, as I wanted to incorporate certain aspects of canon to not make it so abrupt. Later, I realized this was stupid, so later on I put more emphasis on the lies and misdirection that the Brotherhood uses, and the invasions by the poorly trained peoples of Amedio and Hepmonaland being means of distracting the authorities while the Brotherhood's true agents do their infiltration.

I see the Scarlet Brotherhood as being akin to the Illuminati, or the depictions of certain real-life organizations like the Freemasons or the Skull and Bones society, in the sense that there's a lot of talk about them as some big, scary organization, but few people actually know anything about them, or even consider them real. The Scarlet Sign, of course, uses such rumoer-mongering to their advantage, sowing misinformation and deception whereever they go.

Of course, adventurers who've tangled with them and certain powerful groups and individuals, such as the Boneheart or the Circle of Eight, know the full truth and actively try to stop them. Similarly, the Brotherhood itself is not flawless, and is as vulnerable to power plays, feuds, and rivalries as any other organization.

It's always bugged me the way some of these fictional clandestine organizations and individuals seem to have an almost psychic ability to predict how things will turn out according to their plans, and that they never seem to miscalculate or make a mistake. In my mind, neither the Circle of Eight, the Brotherhood, or anyone else is that perfect. They can underestimate a certain threat, misread how certain people will react, stuff like that. They're better than most at the game, but even the likes of Babe Ruth strike out once in a while.

 

[El Mahdi]

. . .They're better than most at the game, but even the likes of Babe Ruth strike out once in a while.

Actually, if they're like Babe Ruth, they strike out most of the time. It's just they hit more home runs (big wins) than others. The strikeouts are what make the homeruns that much sweeter.

 

[airwalkrr]

I don't mind FtA so much. I wouldn't say I love it. I actually prefer pre-FtA Greyhawk, but I don't think FtA ruined the setting. The thing is, I am a busy person, so I tend to use the setting as written rather than take the time to change things up because it saves me prep work. So FtA happened in my Greyhawk campaign because I have source material for it that I don't have to come up with myself. And for that matter, Iuz is still just as evil as he was before. Furyondy still has a lot of paladins. Vecna is still the most powerful lich spellcaster to have ever lived/died. So there are a lot of constants and it is those things I appreciate most about the setting.