What if the Roman Empire remained?

[Synicism]

Heh. There are a couple gaming books that deal with this possibility. One is an entry in GURPS: Alternate Earths, dealing with a parallel Earth called Roma Aeterna. Another is a fairly new RPG called FVLMINATA: Armed with Lighting, about a world where Rome survived.

Interesting stuff. Check it out.

 

[med stud]

By some (or much ) stretch of imagination, the Vikings already are responsible for the countries of North America.

Around year 1000, Western Vikings (Norweigians, Danes and West Swedes) got Normandie from the French in exchange for not burning Paris. There, their culture was being absorbed by the French culture, but they were still Vikings (in this example). The normands then occupied England, and installed Normand kings. Those kings took the decision to colonise North America, which was the beginning of the US.

In the years of the Vikings, Eastern Vikings (from Eastern Sweden) colonised much of Russia, making the base (according to some historians) for the present day Russian culture.

So now, we have USA created by the legacy of Vikings, and Russia created by the legacy of Vikings. So, in the long run, the Cold war was essentially a conflict of interrest by two Viking derived cultures.

Or maybe not I thought up this example on a boring bus trip, and thought that I might as well post it

 

[fusangite]

I've enjoyed reading much of the speculation posted here. However, I'm starting to see a drift from alternate timelines to create an interesting D&D scenario to alternate timelines creating interesting modern scenarios.

Also, a general word of advice: one has to address oneself to the historical forces which give rise to single climactic events. For instance, what different things would need to be happening in Central Asia to prevent the cascades of barbarian migrations?

Anyway, my interest in this thread is now largely spent. Have fun, you guys!

 

[gunter uxbridge]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you...why do we continue to debate this issue when Star Trek had covered this issue on multiple occasions? Tread not where Kirk has tread, and be joyous in his teachings!

Seriously....I have no idea.

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

another little thing that might have prolonged the empire:
Civilized Germanics: throughout much of the Empire's history, huge amounts of wealth came into Rome in the form of plunder. Carthage, Greece, Egypt, and other rich, civilized opponents fueled the Roman economy. Not to mention, of course, the slaves.
When Rome runs out of civilized enemies, things start to lose steam (you had to spend money to feed the plebes of course, and to maintain a hard-pressed army, and don't forget grand public works). And the Celts fight much harder than they work as slaves.

Now if the Germanics have settled down more and are rich softies, the Empire can keep chugging along, perhaps long enough for the Eastern Empire to save it. Then the Empire can push northward to conquer the Vikings, learning a great deal about seafaring in the process.

This allows for new rounds of expansion down the coast of Africa, against flourishing gold and salt trading empires like Mali and Songhai. Eventually, the Romans get to America, and the Romans of perhaps the 13th century become like Spanish of the 16th, hauling tons of gold and silver from the Americas.

 

[MaxKaladin]

Augustus did say the borders were fine where they were, but that was only after three of his legions were massacred by the Germans while they were trying to pacify Germany. Rome withdrew across the Rhein and Augustus said the borders were ok where they were.

If you look at a map of where the legions were placed, you'll notice the very long border in Northern Europe (along the Rhein and Danube) was where most of the legions were at. Many have speculated that the western empire might have survived if they had had the will to push past those rivers to the Oder or beyond and created a shorter and more defensable border to defend.

One thing I've been thinking about lately is the possibility of a reformed Republic instead of rule by the emperor.

 

[s/LaSH]

To address some ideas raised:

The primary cause for the fall of Rome would be barbarian invaders. Was Rome strong enough to see them off? Yes, at least at first. It was internal conflict that weakened them, in my opinion. So to withstand those invaders is the first order of business. Whether this is done with better emperors or the restoration of the Republic, the end result is that Rome after about 1200AD has seen off all comers, and probably subjugated them into satellite nations that can absorb most of a barbarian horde on their own, if they haven't conquered them outright. This includes Germans, Muslims and Central Asians.

The Black Plague, however, is thought to be Central Asian in origin, and would have wreaked havoc on the urban centres of Rome. So the 1300s (or earlier?) would have been a not fun time. Fortunately, with a scientific renaissance on the cards, the Romans might have been able to arrest the spread of the disease...

But I'm tired, so I won't try to factor these in anywhere. Anyone still listening?

 

[d19]

for a truly amazing read that starts off with this same premise, check out thomas harris' oath of empires trilogy. the author's stories have appeared in dragon and some of his rpg adventures have appeared in dungeon. it's an alternate world with magic that works (a lot like d&d actually).

I think you mean Thomas Harlan, the series is up to 4 books now. Thomas Harris wrote the Hannibal Lecter books.