What I'm looking for in commercial adventures

[Skyscraper]

Here is what I’m looking for in a commercial adventure.

I’d like for the module to be a hybrid between a sandbox-type adventure and one where the encounters are predetermined in advance; and I’d like for everything to be tied up not by a strict predetermined storyline but rather by a broad set of events that unfold and that player characters can interact with and influence.

My idea is to have the game funnel the players towards specific events, but in-between they’re free to accomplish things as they see fit and the DM is free to adapt the game according to player decisions. Give power back to the DM to improvise, to decide on-the-fly how things will unfold, and give him the tools to do it: full general area maps, full specific area maps, creature stats, creature motivations, social background, adventure hooks; but also how the different creature groups interact between each other and how the PCs might run into them. In other words, trace a line that represents NPC actions, and let the DM and players decide where and how the PC action line will intersect the NPC action line.

I did mostly homemade adventures in the past 30 years of DMing due to the flexibility they offer. I never prepare stuff very much in advance, because I wait to see what the players decide to do and it’s in-game that I get ideas for what the players will face next.

The problem with this approach is that it’s usually seen as incompatible with commercial adventures where you need to provide material for the DM from start to finish, you can’t wait on player decisions to design the rest of your adventure. Thus, either you get sandbox adventures where you have areas with encounter planned when the PCs visit that area; or you have railroad adventures where the DM guides the PCs through a set of predetermined encounters. Each has its drawbacks, among them for sandbox: lack of storyline; and for railroad: no room for players to influence events.

What I’d like to see is a module that provides area maps, which include general area maps such as the Vale or region where the adventure will occur, but also full specific area maps such as the complete map to important buildings: the temple of the dark cult, the small castle of the evil duke, the underground hideout of a fallen angel, two or three general-use street and house maps, and the like.

Then, the storyline is set. People have been disappearing from the Vale. PCs are hired to investigate. The truth behind the matter is that there is a dark cult that sacrifices people from the Vale as part of a lengthy ritual (say, months-long) to open a gate to the Abyss. A devil has been watching these events and wants to stop this and also put his hands on the evil life-draining relic that the cult is using. The evil duke struck a pact with the devil to get to power and is now bound to fulfil some things that he now regrets to help the devil get the relic. A fallen angel is also in the Vale to exact revenge against the devil who is the one who made him fall from grace and this loose cannon will have to be dealt with. Enter the thieves’ guild, the merchant’s guild, the militia, the three Counts that wish to increase their power under the duke or even take his place, a couple of clergies with their agendas, and you have a cooking pot that is ready to serve.

I just popped this up in a minute to show that the story benefits IMO from numerous interactions between the different groups – my story example itself is beside the point. What is important is that there is a storyline that will unfold unless the PCs act to stop it. This is the NPC storyline that the PCs can intersect.

What is then required to complete this NPC storyline is a general timeline of events. It can be precise, or approximate: week 1, the devil instructs the duke to send men to fetch the relic from the cult, but they are slain. Week 2, the PCs arrive in town and are approached by the clergy of a temple to investigate the missing vale-folk; the fallen angle arrives in town and causes some mayhem as he’s looking for the devil, and even gets arrested, but refuses to say the humiliating truth; all the while, the cult continues to capture vale folk. Etc… The DM is left to determine when exactly these events occur depending on what’s going on and how much the PCs foil plans or are active, but the general timeline is there to help. If necessary, it can be more precise.

Add to this some clues, numerous ones, that can be found left and right: the cult kidnaps people during the night by hiring creatures that can be sought and found by tracking, eye witnesses, a contact in the vale who’s always there when the kidnappings occur, magic residue at the place where the kidnapping occurred, …

And then, let the PCs loose in there. Where will they go, where will fights occur, who will they battle, who knows?

The funnel points are those in the storyline that you know the PCs will go to. For example, it’s likely that they will eventually fight the dark cult. You can even prepare a detailed encounter for that event. And you can spring the adventure towards something else afterwards, especially if it’s part of an adventure path. But between the start and the cult being thwarted, they were free to do as they wished.

Among that freedom, the players and DM will improvise and together come to determine what battles will occur, where most battles will occur, what will be handled by diplomacy and what won’t, etc... Not that the DM will ask the players for their opinion, but rather it will just happen on-the-fly as the DM decides to spring an attack at an opportune moment. (Trust the DM!) In addition to creature stats, the module would preferably provide several creature groups that are to be used as part of encounters, without any specific locale; and those would be in sufficient number that the DM won’t be caught short-handed if an encounter group is required, in fact it’s likely that all groups won’t have been used by the end of the module (and it’s fine!). The module can also give some terrain, traps or hazards that can be used in different areas. Some encounters can be entirely preset if it fits the story, for example the blind witch that never leaves her cave in the swamp, who has a crystal ball that would help reconstitute a kidnapping. But generally, nothing is preset. Isn’t normal after all that the creatures aren’t located at precisely the same place whenever the PCs show up? Can’t a castle be organised so that it’s easier to infiltrate at night? I still have trouble with: whatever the PCs do, they’ll end up fighting the next encounter with creatures A, B, C, D located at their respective position on the encounter map…

The bottom line to this is: trust the DM and the players!

I'd like to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld, when asked what was the recipee for his success was when his show was hot in the '90s, he said: I trust the intelligence of my viewers.

In closing, I'd like to say that I'm not a professional designer or anything close to that, just another player, and I do not claim to hold any single truth here. I'm sure that commercial adventures as they exist right now are perfect for many players. (And some are to my liking also, to some extent.) I'm just voicing my own opinion on what I'd personally like to see in commercial adventures, nothing more.

Thanks for reading, and don't hesitate to comment.

Sky

 

[Jhaelen]

The problem with such adventure modules is that they cannot be played without a certain amount of prep time.

So, imho, the better approach is to provide the most likely storyline and give hints on what to do when things aren't going as planned. A lazy DM can then play the module with (almost) zero-prep, and DM's who enjoy tinkering with modules, making sure they integrate well into their campaign, etc. has some starting points.

Take, for example the 3e 'Expedition to Castle Greyhawk'. It uses the well-known encounter format but it also spends a lot of space to describe the 'bigger picture'. It provides an overview of the local region and the districts of the City of Greyhawk. In points out locations that are likely to be relevant or important for the adventure and lots of side-quests.

It also has a section with random encounter tables, fully described encounters and maps that can be used when the pcs start exploring regions that don't have anything to do with the adventure's storyline.

That's the kind of thing I'd like to see in every adventure module. However, I already know why not every adventure module includes all of this: space.

I'm looking at a 'super-module' here. That's why it has enough space to provide all these details. Standard modules usually limit themselves to provide what is required for the main storyline, which is why many feel they read like railroads.

I should note that I didn't like the adventure itself very much - I just liked how it was presented.

I also really liked 'Hammerfast' even though it doesn't come with a complete storyline for lazy DMs. But that's because I enjoy tinkering with modules, anyway. I just don't think that's the case for every DM. I also know for certain that it's not for every group of players. There are players who expect a story to be laid out to them. Put them in a sandbox and they get bored or get lost (or both).

Have you seen 'The Slaying Stone'? I think that's a module that is presented the way you suggest. Considering the serious space limitations I thought it was amazingly well-done and open-ended.
However, I'm not sure if a newbie DM or a DM without prep-time would be able to run it well.

 

[Skyscraper]

Hey Jhaelen, thanks for your relevant comments.

The problem with such adventure modules is that they cannot be played without a certain amount of prep time.

I don't know if I'm optimistic or unrealistic, but I'm hoping for something that you can read once and review in-game, and then wing it based on the maps, stats and storyline presented in the module. I admit that it's probably more preparation than linear modules that you can simply follow point-by-point, but by that much? I don't know.

So, imho, the better approach is to provide the most likely storyline and give hints on what to do when things aren't going as planned. A lazy DM can then play the module with (almost) zero-prep, and DM's who enjoy tinkering with modules, making sure they integrate well into their campaign, etc. has some starting points.

What if you present the DM with an NPC storyline? Something that's clear enough. You're simply not pushing the PCs into predetermined encounters. You let them determine where they'll go.

the 3e 'Expedition to Castle Greyhawk'... 'Hammerfast' ... The Slaying Stone...

Of the three modules you discuss, I've only read The Slaying Stone and indeed, it is quite open-ended. One thing that bugs me with that module is that it still provides specific encounter locations, say one corridor segment with two rooms, where encounters are to be run. So for example while your PCs are exploring ruins, you need at one point to lay down a map and tell them that they entered this corridor segment, when in fact they might have opted for something quite different if they had been presented with the big picture, i.e. the entire map. Give the Slaying Stone area maps, location maps (full temple map, ...), and a more detailed NPC storyline and evolving set of events, and you have what I'm looking for.

But otherwise, I'm thrilled that WotC tried this new format and I'm very happy about the result. I opted to run something else (the first module of War of the Burning Sky, namely) in the end, but I'm keeping The Slaying Stone for future use for sure. It is the closest module to the format that I'm hoping to see that I've seen published in the last several years, though there may be others I'm not aware of, of course.

Put them in a sandbox and they get bored or get lost (or both).

I'm not looking for a sandbox approach. I'm hoping for an innovative format, a bit like the Slaying Stone is, but pushing it further. Something where improvisation rules, but where you have a support structure and safety nets that prevent the game from simply falling apart if the DM and players aren't comfortable enough with the free-form.

I'm also hoping that we can see different types or formats of modules that might appeal to a different audience. I know one person who likes railroad adventures; fair enough. However, I find it's too bad many publishers have been making that type of module almost exclusively. I think making a module is an art and art shouldn't be confined to a single approach. There is no right or wrong answer to module design and I think that product variety should reflect that in format and structure, not only in storyline and encounter configuration.

Sky

 

[Jhaelen]

Of the three modules you discuss, I've only read The Slaying Stone and indeed, it is quite open-ended. One thing that bugs me with that module is that it still provides specific encounter locations, say one corridor segment with two rooms, where encounters are to be run. So for example while your PCs are exploring ruins, you need at one point to lay down a map and tell them that they entered this corridor segment, when in fact they might have opted for something quite different if they had been presented with the big picture, i.e. the entire map.

Hmm. I guess, you could do that. They could indicate combat-relevant features on the overview maps and provide a legend explaining them in detail where required. Then you could run every encounter anywhere, without having to make up or do without interesting features. This should work for all but the central 'set-piece' encounters.

Myself, I've developed a kind of lazy DM style. I no longer bother too much to get a battle-area exactly right. I'd rather save time and use a poster map I happen to have available that is similar enough to work with minimal adjustments. I may put a tile here and there to indicate that a particular exit doesn't exist, but that's about it.

How do you set up battlemaps for encounters? Because the problem I'm seeing when every encounter can happen anywhere is that you'd have to prepare battle-grids for everything. The alternative of creating the maps during play (e.g. with dungeon tiles) is taking too long for my taste.

I'm also hoping that we can see different types or formats of modules that might appeal to a different audience. I know one person who likes railroad adventures; fair enough. However, I find it's too bad many publishers have been making that type of module almost exclusively.

That's a good point and an interesting thought. In a way WotC is already doing it by calling 'hammerfast' an 'adventure location' rather than an 'adventure module'. I guess, you could go a step further and release adventure modules with different descriptors, indicating if they represent something more railroady or something more open.

 

[IronWolf]

I'm also hoping that we can see different types or formats of modules that might appeal to a different audience. I know one person who likes railroad adventures; fair enough. However, I find it's too bad many publishers have been making that type of module almost exclusively. I think making a module is an art and art shouldn't be confined to a single approach. There is no right or wrong answer to module design and I think that product variety should reflect that in format and structure, not only in storyline and encounter configuration.

Have you looked at Paizo's Kingmaker Adventure Path? I don't think it is an exact match to what you are looking for, but I do think it is in the same ballpark as what you are looking for.

There is a lot of open-ended pieces to it with less direct direction for the PCs to follow and more of an event based approach which can change depending on which direction the PCs go off exploring. And then there are some main events to help tie the whole thing together. It might be worth at least taking a look at it and seeing how close it fits your vision.

 

[renau1g]

I would second the Kingmaker adventure. It's fantastic! I even have converted it to 4e, with minimal issues. Too bad Paizo doesn't make any 4e adventures.

 

[Skyscraper]

The Kingmaker AP looks interesting, I've just skimmed through the Player's Guide and a couple of reviews. I don't think I'll buy it because I'm looking for ways to cut down on prep time, and using a new world in a non-4E edition would require that I put too much time on modding the AP to suit me, but I find it interesting that a major publisher such as Paizo is looking into different AP styles. For some years there I thought we were kind of stalled in design formats, although I admit that there are a lot of small publishers whose products I don't know.

Sky

 

[James Jacobs]

I actaully try to challenge both our authors and us in-house at Paizo to keep things interesting with the Adventure Paths by mixing things up, and by adding some sort of new element to each one. This not only keeps us interested (which is important!), but helps to constantly expand what an Adventure Path is.

Kingmaker certainly introduces a significant new element to the formula, with not only a very sandbox-style game, but also rules for building and running kingdoms, building cities, and mass combats. But in previous APs we've also introduced other elements like running businesses, new rules for hauntings and chases, serving as part of the city guard, weapons that grow in power as the adventure path progresses, or significant down-time tasks and goals between adventures.

With the upcoming Serpent's Skull, one of the big things we're going to explore is a relatively robust method of handling important allied NPCs and, eventually, rules for running competing expeditions into lost jungle cities.

 

[Lanefan]

Something to watch out for:

Every adventure has a "core" - the actual dungeon, lair, whatever that is at the heart of the adventure. The module has to have this, in as much detail as possible.

BUT, and it's a very important BUT, every time more external stuff gets added in terms of story or setting or whatever it becomes a bigger headache to drop that adventure into an existing campaign or setting.

Dropping in a ruined castle is easy. A nearby town is also pretty easy. BUT STOP THERE!

Dropping in an entire prewritten realm and history and bunch of famous NPCs surrounding that ruined castle and making 'em all fit with my ongoing campaign and setting is a bloody pain in the arse. Which means I'm 99% likely to end up chucking everything in the written module except the core adventure and replacing it with what fits my game; thus more work for me. And I don't really want to pay for content I'm only going to chuck out and that is going to cause me extra work.

In a commercial adventure I'm looking for the core - the actual adventure - written up in such a way as to cover the corner-case eventualities and be easy to run. Give me that, and let me worry about all the other stuff such as slotting it into my campaign.

Lan-"the exception, of course, is if the adventure is intended to become the setting"-efan

 

[renau1g]

With the upcoming Serpent's Skull, one of the big things we're going to explore is a relatively robust method of handling important allied NPCs and, eventually, rules for running competing expeditions into lost jungle cities.

Can you elaborate a bit more? I'm debating whether to keep the subscription after Kingmaker is done.