D&D 5E What is a Dex save doing?

[Xeviat]

Yeah, I always saw it as a quick reflexive covering your vitals. Rogues are better at this, hence evasion. A full system modification could have a trade off, with things like reactive defenses with choices (block or dodge, brace or evade).


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[Fanaelialae]

Heck, if the character was outside the area at the start of their turn but moved into it, it could even represent whether the character was still moving and therefore caught on the edge of the fireball when it exploded, or was completely inside the area. In the fiction of the game world the PCs/monsters are acting more or less simultaneously, so their positions are yet another abstraction; in a sense, D&D combat is more like the quantum universe than the Newtonian one.

 

[delericho]

It's a Matrix-style dodge, or a duck and cover, or...

Basically, some quick movement to either avoid the damage entirely, or redirect it to less vital areas.

And no, that doesn't make perfect sense, but that fits with the rest of the hit point system.

 

[cmad1977]

It's is
Quickly taking cover nearby
Using someone else(an enemy?) for cover.
Dropping quickly to the floor and up.
Squeezing up against a wall.
Wall running backflip.
Holding up just outside the affected area.
Whatever works in the situation.


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[NotActuallyTim]

It's just grabbing a party member who failed and putting them between you incoming death.

 

[mellored]

I always think dex saves should have some movement getting you out of the zone. You could still have then same save vs half mechanic.

I.e. make a Dex save, move that number of feet, anyone still inside the fireball range takes 8d6 damage, anyone who was in range but escaped takes half. Creatures can choose to fall prone in order to add 5' to their dex save. Creatures already prone only move half the distance.


That also gives a nice fall-off effect where the center of the blast takes more damage.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I always think dex saves should have some movement getting you out of the zone. You could still have then same save vs half mechanic.

I.e. make a Dex save, move that number of feet, anyone still inside the fireball range takes 8d6 damage, anyone who was in range but escaped takes half. Creatures can choose to fall prone in order to add 5' to their dex save. Creatures already prone only move half the distance.


That also gives a nice fall-off effect where the center of the blast takes more damage.

I've considered something like this myself in the past, but abandoned the idea because it adds an unnecessary level of complexity and, more importantly, can produce more nonsensical results than the system in place.

For example, let's say that a character with an excellent Dex save takes the Dash action and moves their full movement (they cannot move another foot under their own power). Then a fireball goes off so he rolls a Dex save of 20+ and moves another 20 feet (escaping the fireball). Now another fireball goes off and he rolls another 20+ Dex save and moves another 20 feet. He's now moved considerably more than he ought to have been able to. Fireball becomes a poor man's mass Expeditious Retreat. As long as they have hp and you have Dex save spells, you can make your targets move.

Now sure, you could make that Dexterity save a reaction, limiting it to once per turn, but now you've changed the dynamic completely. Already taken an opportunity attack this round? Sorry, you auto-fail that Dex save. Already tried to save against one fireball this round? Sorry, that second fireball is going to deep fry you. A group of Flame Skulls becomes even deadlier than they currently are. Meteor Swarm becomes basically an auto-fail (four 40' radius spheres) due to its size. This means that Dex-based AoEs receive a significant boost, which ought to be factored in by reducing the damage of all Dex-based AoEs.

It also begs the question of why a character can move when targeted by Lightning Bolt or Fireball, but not Shatter or Cone of Cold (because the latter two are Con saves). So you'll probably want to change those too, as well as a lot of other spells and abilities that fall into the same category.

I devised a simpler method that I prefer to the aforementioned one, although I've never tried it because I still feel the added complexity might outweigh the benefits. If you are adjacent to the center/origin-point of the AoE, you have disadvantage on your save. If you are adjacent to the end/edge of the AoE, you have advantage on the save. Relatively simple, but given the amount of time it typically takes at my table to adjudicate AoEs (rolling multiple saves, tracking who made it and who didn't, applying full and half damage to the relevant parties) any added complexity is a hard sell for me.

 

[Dausuul]

I figure a Dex save is the equivalent of your Dex bonus to AC: A split-second movement to minimize the damage. It's not a big response, which is why it only halves damage. Rogues are crazy fast and can roll or dive quick enough to avoid any damage at all, but they're exceptional.

 

[mellored]

I've considered something like this myself in the past, but abandoned the idea because it adds an unnecessary level of complexity and, more importantly, can produce more nonsensical results than the system in place.

For example, let's say that a character with an excellent Dex save takes the Dash action and moves their full movement (they cannot move another foot under their own power). Then a fireball goes off so he rolls a Dex save of 20+ and moves another 20 feet (escaping the fireball). Now another fireball goes off and he rolls another 20+ Dex save and moves another 20 feet. He's now moved considerably more than he ought to have been able to. Fireball becomes a poor man's mass Expeditious Retreat. As long as they have hp and you have Dex save spells, you can make your targets move.

Now sure, you could make that Dexterity save a reaction, limiting it to once per turn, but now you've changed the dynamic completely. Already taken an opportunity attack this round? Sorry, you auto-fail that Dex save. Already tried to save against one fireball this round? Sorry, that second fireball is going to deep fry you. A group of Flame Skulls becomes even deadlier than they currently are. Meteor Swarm becomes basically an auto-fail (four 40' radius spheres) due to its size. This means that Dex-based AoEs receive a significant boost, which ought to be factored in by reducing the damage of all Dex-based AoEs.

It also begs the question of why a character can move when targeted by Lightning Bolt or Fireball, but not Shatter or Cone of Cold (because the latter two are Con saves). So you'll probably want to change those too, as well as a lot of other spells and abilities that fall into the same category.

I devised a simpler method that I prefer to the aforementioned one, although I've never tried it because I still feel the added complexity might outweigh the benefits. If you are adjacent to the center/origin-point of the AoE, you have disadvantage on your save. If you are adjacent to the end/edge of the AoE, you have advantage on the save. Relatively simple, but given the amount of time it typically takes at my table to adjudicate AoEs (rolling multiple saves, tracking who made it and who didn't, applying full and half damage to the relevant parties) any added complexity is a hard sell for me.

using fireballs to propellers yourself around the battlefield sounds awesome.

Lightning shouldn't be dodgeable, something like an automatic 2d20 damage would fit.

The dis/advantage on con saves sounds great for cone spells. But obviously there would need to be a bit of rework on stuff.

 

[MiraMels]

Someone casts Fireball. You make your Dex save and take half damage. Why?

And why does whatever you're doing not cost your reaction, not cost movement, and not change your fictional positioning (e.g. make you go prone)?

What is your Dex save physically doing?

I feel like this is only a problem when using Grid Play. Grid-less play, being more concerned with relative positioning than exact positions, can easily accommodate small changes in fictional positioning that make sense for the circumstances at hand.