What is a GOOD rules light system?

[Votan]

Wow, I can't imagine what you would have heard bad about Green Ronin. They consistently get high reviews, win Ennies and other awards, and almost every book they have produced is very solid. GR has had an amazing lineup of books since they started: Book of the Righteous, Book of Fiends, Freeport (everything), True 20, Mutants and Masterminds, Testament, Thieves World, Black Company, Skull and Crossbones, and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2. GR is one of the two companies I'll buy books sight unseen from- the other being Pinnacle (makers of Deadlands and Savage Worlds).

I had acquired the impression that they were one of those game world creators who had decided to sell books by escalating power levels. I think I might have had them confused with another publisher because, so far, actual reading of their books showed very balanced and interesting rules.

It's true that we have had trouble with 1 or 2 True20 rules (saves for multi-class characters was the most annoying) but, in general, they cover the guts of a system in less than 100 pages. I actually find it easier to recreate characters from Risus in True20 than D&D.

Example: We had some hard to translate characters such as mine:

Ryu: Jedi (4), Swordsman (3) and Leader (2)

D&D 3.5 leaves few good options that are mechnaically solid. The best I could do was:

Ryu: Paladin 2/Psion (Telepath) 2 (just one of the most MAD and awkward multi-classes ever; Wilder would be okay but so many levels are needed jsut to duplicate his telepathy which was one of his major traits)

In True 20 he works out really logically as a Warrior 1/Adept 3. That was a virtue in that you could translate some pretty exotic characters into the system.

 

[Jack of Shadows]

Two great rules light systems:

Over The Edge

Feng Shui

Neither are fantasy directly but both could port over easily.

Jack

 

[MonsterMash]

I'll just add to the chorus of approval for Castles & Crusades

 

[barsoomcore]

It's true that we have had trouble with 1 or 2 True20 rules (saves for multi-class characters was the most annoying)

Oh, yeah. The actual rules writing is occasionally TERRIBLE. Trying to figure out how damage works was an adventure -- not at all helped by assorted misprints.

There are some real production problems in the book. I mean, the official character sheet has MAJOR errors on it! It has spaces for "Melee" and "Ranged" attack bonuses -- but True20 doesn't have "Melee" or "Ranged" attack bonuses. Drives me crazy.

I actually put my own True20 character sheet together. Feel free to grab a copy. It's basically the same as the GR official one, only corrected, and with a couple more slots (you can track your Fatigue Save modifier, and there's space for Power Bonuses and Power Save DCs, etc).

But I love the rules.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Actually, I have to recommend AGAINST LA. It's not so much rules light as rules missing, and PCs can't do much of ANYTHING without asking the GM

I'm not sure what to make of this. The PCs have their abilities (i.e. skill bundles) like chivalry, ranging, weapons, etc. They can attempt pretty much anything they like, and the GM handles it based on their abilities, etc.

(and then their chances are based upon his whim - which is exactly what some GMs want, but very annoying to many players).

Their chances are based on the level of the appropriate ability (i.e. skill) or base rating (i.e. stat), plus any modifiers. I guess I don't understand what you're getting at.

After a long time of messing with the system, I have abandoned it, entirely. I found it a confused mess!

Well, there's no accounting for taste, I suppose. My experience has been different. People can judge for themselves by trying out the Quick Start.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I've been running C&C for 8 months, if there is anything wonky about the game it is the DM.

Yeah, it is very archetypical like 1E and 2E, but in C&C you can attempt to do any feat like maneuver from level one. Read my detailed posts on the first page of this thread. Also see what I did with skills. As for the xp differences, the classes in C&C are just as well balanced as 3E (meaning NOT), so make the xp tables the same.

So 3E limits you to what feats and skills are written on your character sheet. In my C&C games your character is limited by your imagination, the rules, and your dice rolls. Plus I like a very free form, do what you want as long as it is cool, style. C&C gives me that, 3E locks you down.

Yeah, I know what all you people still playing 3E are going to say about this, but unlike you I have been running C&C for over 8 months after playing/DMing 3E for about 4 years. C&C gives me what I want out of a rules system. 3E doesn't. If it gives all of you who still play an love 3E what you want, fantastic! It didn't give me what I want and I found C&C, so fantastic for me! So we are all happy! Fantastic for all of us!

But if your someone unhappy with 3E, give C&C a seriously hard look. I want all of us happy playing something, rather than getting fed up and walking away from RPG's forever.

I think that's all pretty fair, actually. Much as I'd disagree with you that 3e is necessarily limiting, I *can* see how C&C would be liberating! You make an interesting point about being able to "zero" the XP tables and have it work; I should look at that.

What I find interesting about C&C is that everything new that's added in (Encumbrance Value, etc.) is a great idea that I'd like to port into my D&D game! That's a pretty strong example of a well-designed rules-light system off the bat, I guess.

 

[Treebore]

Its just as easy in most cases to use any D&D module with Basic D&D rules. People have long played AD&D modules with Basic and vice versa. D20 stuff is really no harder to convert to Basic than it is to C&C. And as there are fewer rules in Basic, there is actually less stuff you have to convert. A lot of things are just dropped entirely and left up to roleplaying .

I used to play 1E modules in basic and basic in 1E (Sabre River being my favorite), but trust me C&C is the easiest to do every edition, especially 3rd. Now if you never moved on to 3rd then C&C probably isn't nearly as useful to you. C&C is the best "universal" system that I am aware of. I often describe C&C as the "one ring" of the D&D editions.

Now I have been reading through these other systems mentioned, particularly the free ones, and they could all be "tweaked" into working with every edition, some easier than others, so my only problem with most of them is either I don't like how ambiguous the mechanics are, it is to heavy on the illustrative/roleplay feel, and ultimately, why should I look for another system to convert to a universal system when one already exists?

So, as I always am, I would be happy to play in most of these systems as long as the DM knows how to create a fun game, but when it comes to DMing the only system I am going to use is C&C.

 

[Votan]

I actually put my own True20 character sheet together. Feel free to grab a copy. It's basically the same as the GR official one, only corrected, and with a couple more slots (you can track your Fatigue Save modifier, and there's space for Power Bonuses and Power Save DCs, etc).
.

Thanks, I snagged a copy and it looks like an improvement.

There are a few places where a very clean example would help illustrate the rules a lot more cleanly. Our DM is also worried about how to balance an encounter (What level of party should face a bear, for example). But I think that this will come with experience.

 

[Ashera]

I would suggest Tunnels and Trolls if you want something that's dungeon-y and fairly simple. There's a recent reprint, and most of the rules are available at the Tunnels and Trolls Wiki, with the designer's blessing.

 

[librarius_arcana]

I mean, you can’t trim the fat if you don’t have the full cow to start with, right?

MMMmmmmm sacred Cow

LoL