What is a setting book? [RANT]

[RangerWickett]

I'm not afraid to name names. You know who you are, John! Paul! George too! And don't you dare try to weasel out of this, Ringo. Tsk tsk tsk.

 

[Vigilance]

I think supplements, even SETTING supplements, should always be crunch-heavy.

DMs have their own ideas. Heck I'd even go so far as to say that the idea is the EASY part.

In the Legends of Excalibur Campaign Guide I did all the scut work for the GM of the setting. NPC tables, a BOATLOAD of prewritten NPCs named in Arthurian fiction, along with 3 complete campaign set-ups, including maps.

Now to me, those things are defined as crunch.

But I did all the hard work, so the GM who PAID for the book could spend his time doing the fun stuff.

I call that doing my job.

Chuck

 

[mroberon1972]

In the Legends of Excalibur Campaign Guide I did all the scut work for the GM of the setting. NPC tables, a BOATLOAD of prewritten NPCs named in Arthurian fiction, along with 3 complete campaign set-ups, including maps.

Please don't take this wrong:

It's King bloody Arthur and the friggin Knights of the round table. If you find a gamer who doesn't know it by heart, then revoke his gaming licence...

I'm talking about NEW settings...

 

[Vigilance]

Right- but pregenned NPCs and NPC tables, along with prewritten campaigns- those are crunch.

I know you're talking about NEW settings.

Im not a moron.

Im disagreeing with you.

I think crunch in a setting can set the tone and wouldnt want a setting book that was all fluff.

Chuck

 

[Alhazred]

One of my favourite campaign setting books is FR's 2e book, Raven's Bluff (okay, a city setting, but one which spawned a campaign for me). Lots of flavour (I prefer the term 'flavour' over 'fluff') and only a small number of new spells, monsters and items. I found myself spinning extended adventures out of nothing more than a name, providing my own stats to fit the campaign.

And then I moved three houses down and lost the book.

 

[lp]

I dunno Chuck, I really like LOE but it's a good mix. Also the crunch isn't stupid wasted stuff that doesn't make any sense, and although you do have prestige classes they fit. The alternative magic rules however were awesome.

I love fluff/flavour books, as I don't really have the time for massive amounts of planning. I actually think there is a distinctive lack of fluff books for d20 modern Chuck, so get cracking there for me.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I'm not afraid to name names. You know who you are, John! Paul! George too! And don't you dare try to weasel out of this, Ringo. Tsk tsk tsk.

No, no! You're blaming the wrong folks! It was Yoko's fault...

How about settings like the Iron Kingdoms where the crunch is an entirely seperate book? (Please don't bring up how late it was (and is)... this is a completely seperate rant, and I rather like having the seperate books, though I am still waiting on the second book.)

The Auld Grump, been a good summer for steam all around...

 

[Vanuslux]

Nuh-uh... As a publisher, I'm not really allowed to name names or pick fights...

If you don't want to name names of setting books that you didn't like, you could give some examples of setting books that you feel do things right. That would help give what you're ranting about a bit more context without insulting any specific product.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Yeah I agree, fluff is awesome. Also awesome is stuff that helps you become a better DM. For example the 2e book the Complete Book of Villains. It was 100% tips and techniques with excellent examples. I do like a setting book to include some rules, but mostly tweaks or restrictions, in the same vein as Dark Sun. Changing the standard options gives a setting flavor. Throwing in 20 flavorless PrCs or random feats does nothing for me

Material covering those grounds does not sell.

John For's book on NPCs should be sold out. It's one of the most solid books I've seen on running NPCs.

Look at Robin Laws Guide to Game Mastering. Every GM should read that.

How about Grey Ghost Games and their GM guide?

How about Kenzer's Villian Handbook? Crunch there but also a lot of idea based material that reminded me of the old Complete Book of Villains.

No, people want game mecahnics. Maybe because players buy the books. Maybe because GMs feel that they shouldn't have to pay for better information on role playing or Game Mastering.

If people actually want more fluff books, they need to start voting with their wallets. I remember a time ago that seems a long time now, where one writer mentioned that because one FR book didn't sell as well as another, that crunch would be on the rise if people didn't start buying in the same volume. I think the results of that era are on us now.

 

[mroberon1972]

Material covering those grounds does not sell.

John For's book on NPCs should be sold out. It's one of the most solid books I've seen on running NPCs.

Look at Robin Laws Guide to Game Mastering. Every GM should read that.

How about Grey Ghost Games and their GM guide?

How about Kenzer's Villian Handbook? Crunch there but also a lot of idea based material that reminded me of the old Complete Book of Villains.

No, people want game mecahnics. Maybe because players buy the books. Maybe because GMs feel that they shouldn't have to pay for better information on role playing or Game Mastering.

If people actually want more fluff books, they need to start voting with their wallets. I remember a time ago that seems a long time now, where one writer mentioned that because one FR book didn't sell as well as another, that crunch would be on the rise if people didn't start buying in the same volume. I think the results of that era are on us now.

That's what hurts! People seem to WANT it this way...
I feel bad every time I tell my wife we can't produce settings like she would like, because people buy crunch, not flavor...

Really, nothing for it, but it's kinda sad that the two other drop-in setting we have will probably never get produced professionally (art, maps, etc) since we couldn't recoop the looses...

I'm gonna go cry now...