OD&D What is Mystara?

[Doug McCrae]

I hate the term Kitchen Sink setting. You know what is a Kitchen Sink Setting? Canada. And Earth in General. And the United States. And the EU. Basically it's code for Fantasy Diversity, which makes more sense then mono culture settings honestly.

Default D&D is a kitchen sink setting because it draws upon such a wide range of sources and sticks it all in the same filled-to-bursting world - JRR Tolkien, Jack Vance, Fritz Leiber, Poul Anderson, Hammer horror, Ray Harryhausen, the TV series Kung Fu, Arthurian legends, medieval bestiaries*, and many others. It's not just that there's Viking land, Ancient Egypt land, etc. The sheer number of monsters in the Monster Manual is probably the most kitchen sink-y feature of D&D.

EDIT: *It wasn't medieval, it was an early 17th century bestiary.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I hate the term Kitchen Sink setting. You know what is a Kitchen Sink Setting? Canada. And Earth in General. And the United States. And the EU. Basically it's code for Fantasy Diversity, which makes more sense then mono culture settings honestly.

Fantasy Kitchen Sink - TV Tropes

What happens when All Myths Are True is turned Up to Eleven? You get a Fantasy Kitchen Sink! Everything is true, even if it comes from vastly different origins. So not only are there really dragons, there are fairies, ghosts, vampires, werewolves …

tvtropes.org

I think the "kitchen sink" criticism can be fair, though I don't understand when it's used for Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk (both of which are pretty diverse, but they don't have every single fantasy trope thrown in). You don't want a setting to have every single thing a fantasy setting can have, you want things that differentiate it.

Which does seem to lead back to my overall problem with Mystara, in that is doesn't seem to have anything that truly differentiates it from other D&D settings, and seems like a big amalgamation of several historical lands that don't mesh well in close proximity. There are elements like the Immortals and the Hollow World that I think are ok ideas, but aren't really enough to set it as a "separate but equal concept" compared to FR or GH.

So what should the overall tone of a Mystara adventure be? FR is the default normal adventure where you're a young party out to go on adventure. Greyhawk leans on you being a little grittier, closer to mercenaries. Maybe in Mystara you should be playing over-the-top cartoon-ish heroes? I dunno.

 

[Doug McCrae]

So what should the overall tone of a Mystara adventure be?

D&D for kids.

 

[Parmandur]

Fantasy Kitchen Sink - TV Tropes

What happens when All Myths Are True is turned Up to Eleven? You get a Fantasy Kitchen Sink! Everything is true, even if it comes from vastly different origins. So not only are there really dragons, there are fairies, ghosts, vampires, werewolves …

tvtropes.org

I think the "kitchen sink" criticism can be fair, though I don't understand when it's used for Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk (both of which are pretty diverse, but they don't have every single fantasy trope thrown in). You don't want a setting to have every single thing a fantasy setting can have, you want things that differentiate it.

Which does seem to lead back to my overall problem with Mystara, in that is doesn't seem to have anything that truly differentiates it from other D&D settings, and seems like a big amalgamation of several historical lands that don't mesh well in close proximity. There are elements like the Immortals and the Hollow World that I think are ok ideas, but aren't really enough to set it as a "separate but equal concept" compared to FR or GH.

So what should the overall tone of a Mystara adventure be? FR is the default normal adventure where you're a young party out to go on adventure. Greyhawk leans on you being a little grittier, closer to mercenaries. Maybe in Mystara you should be playing over-the-top cartoon-ish heroes? I dunno.

All three of those styles work for all three Settings, honestly.

To get a good handle on Mystarra, as with Greyhawk, the best method is to look to the Adventure Modules and the implied world. So, Mystarra is Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread, Castle Amber, Master of the Desert Nomads, The Lost City, et cetera and so forth.

 

[Reynard]

D&D for kids.

I don't understand this at all. There's nothing inherently more immature or childlike about Mystara than there is Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance.

 

[Doug McCrae]

There's nothing inherently more immature or childlike about Mystara than there is Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance.

I didn't mean it in a negative (or positive) way. There are some sexual elements, hinted at fetishism, bloodlust, and torture in FR that I don't think you'd find in Mystara. Drow; Loviatar; "Sharess is a goddess of lust, free love, and sensual fulfillment"; the "Courtesan Larissa"; Lliira is "sensuous"; Sune is a "stunning redhead of incredible charms"; Umberlee is the "Bitch Queen" which I think refers to her character rather than female animals; Ilmater can manifest in those being tortured; in Amn doxxing a merchant king has a sentence of "slow torture and death"; "Moruene is Eltan's... occasional lover"; "The witches [of Rashemen] are said to take male lovers for brief periods... It is believed that these males are used for some form of planned breeding program"; Malar, god of bloodlust, "is the patron of those who exult in it [killing] endlessly, sensually"

This is all from the 1987 grey box campaign setting.

I don't know enough about Dragonlance to comment on it.

 

[The Glen]

There's a lot of mature themes in Mystara, but on a different scale. True, you don't have a bunch of dark-skinned elves dressed up as their only wardrobe was from Lolth's Secret, but when you read what Glantri does to people they don't like, it reads like a Tim Roth screenplay.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

All three of those styles work for all three Settings, honestly.

To get a good handle on Mystarra, as with Greyhawk, the best method is to look to the Adventure Modules and the implied world. So, Mystarra is Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread, Castle Amber, Master of the Desert Nomads, The Lost City, et cetera and so forth.

I dunno if I agree with the three "styles" point, at least for the 5e interpretations. Obviously you can take the setting and redefine them the way you want, but I think there is a certain tonal difference between Greyhawk and FR. Still trying to figure out one for Mystara, but I'm leaning on "Buck Rogers, OG Star Trek, Pulp Campy-iness" (which is not a criticism btw, that can be fun).

FR in 5e is definitely the more "optimistic" setting, where a villain-of-the-week will show up (Tiamat, the Cults of Elemental Evil, the Demon Lords, the Kraken Society, Thay) but the good-guys team up and defeat the enemy to restore the status-quo (also not a criticism, this can be fun and is driving some pretty good 5e modules).

Greyhawk has always been a darker reflection of fantasy with a smaller scale, and Ghosts of Saltmarsh is a pretty good reflection of that (being altogether a pretty creepy collection of adventures that will only destroy this one town).

Now I think Mystara has been defined and redefined several different ways in modules, but if I was to set a tone for 5e I'd like a campy-pulpiness to set it apart from FR and GH. And I think a lot of color and whimsy can do a setting a lot of good; think of it as the Guardians of the Galaxy of D&D settings.

 

[Parmandur]

I dunno if I agree with the three "styles" point, at least for the 5e interpretations. Obviously you can take the setting and redefine them the way you want, but I think there is a certain tonal difference between Greyhawk and FR. Still trying to figure out one for Mystara, but I'm leaning on "Buck Rogers, OG Star Trek, Pulp Campy-iness" (which is not a criticism btw, that can be fun).

FR in 5e is definitely the more "optimistic" setting, where a villain-of-the-week will show up (Tiamat, the Cults of Elemental Evil, the Demon Lords, the Kraken Society, Thay) but the good-guys team up and defeat the enemy to restore the status-quo (also not a criticism, this can be fun and is driving some pretty good 5e modules).

Greyhawk has always been a darker reflection of fantasy with a smaller scale, and Ghosts of Saltmarsh is a pretty good reflection of that (being altogether a pretty creepy collection of adventures that will only destroy this one town).

Now I think Mystara has been defined and redefined several different ways in modules, but if I was to set a tone for 5e I'd like a campy-pulpiness to set it apart from FR and GH. And I think a lot of color and whimsy can do a setting a lot of good; think of it as the Guardians of the Galaxy of D&D settings.

To be honest, if you look at the material for all three Settings, across their history, you can hit those notes in all of them. Forgotten Realms can be dark or whimsical, Greyhawk can be optimistic or whimsical, Mystarra can be bright heroism or dark...

 

[Urriak Uruk]

To be honest, if you look at the material for all three Settings, across their history, you can hit those notes in all of them. Forgotten Realms can be dark or whimsical, Greyhawk can be optimistic or whimsical, Mystarra can be bright heroism or dark...

You can, but part of the point of this thread is if you were to gestalt these settings into a line or two, what would the best tonal definition be.