D&D General What is player agency to you?

[hawkeyefan]

Because my question started with 'what if there isn't one' - One being what you stated in your preceding post: 'finding a way to make it work that is not ridiculous to you.'

Your entire answer assumed there was some way to make it work for me when my question clearly included the premise that there wasn't a way to make it work for me.

But I already told you… do whatever you want.

I’ve never run into this problem myself, so all I can offer you is the advice of what I’d do.

 

[FrogReaver]

Feels like there should be a poll or something for people to put where they ultimately stand, something like:

A: A feature only works if the DM has allowed in their setting / background notes for such a feature to work ahead of time
B: A feature works if the DM sees a reasonably plausible reason for such a feature to work, given the world / circumstances
C: A feature works if there is any plausible situation for such a feature to work , given the world / circumstances and with conversation between DM and players
D: A feature always works as written, DM needs to honour it somehow.

It feels like most people are generally advocating for B or C, but acting like the others are advocating for A or D, and maybe some sort of poll would give a better feel for where people are coming from? I do think there are one or two that are A or D, but might be miscommunication

Myself, I tend to game as B.

I think you'll get pushback on B and C. No one is going to go for having their position called unreasonable.

 

[hawkeyefan]

You said you couldn't answer the question. That's an answer, and a reasonable one to some here.

I did answer the question. I offered at least three answers.

 

[FrogReaver]

But I already told you… do whatever you want.

I’ve never run into this problem myself, so all I can offer you is the advice of what I’d do.

No, you are avoiding dealing with the premise in my question by saying there must be some way that the premise is invalid. But the premise is about me...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Doesn’t exist? What? No… not in the immediate area. Cities don’t need to not exist for the urchin to be unable to use his feature in a hamlet.

Doesn't exist in the situation at hand. Your ability regarding nobles must always work if there are nobles, and can only not work if there are no nobles in the circumstances at hand for it to work on. Is that that your stance here?

 

[hawkeyefan]

If your top priority is making sure the player ability works as described, then we're simply not going to agree on that.

I don’t know if I’d consider it my top priority, but generally speaking, where players actually do have agency in D&D, I don’t like to take it away.

If that means we don’t agree… well I guess we’ll both have to learn to live with that.

no it isn't, it very clearly illustrates a point

Yes, it illustrates that people can craft vague hypotheticals that basically force the answer they want. Imagine that!

probably, the main problem is that it is wrong however.

Hey, you’re the one who doesn’t allow ridiculous circumstances in your game, right? Like characters going to a lifeless plane (for some reason) and expecting to find life there (again, for some reason). Is that the kind of scenario you present in play?

If so, it sounds bloody ridiculous. If not, then it’s a garbage example.

 

[Mort]

So the only way a PC ability doesn't work is when the thing it works on doesn't exist?

No those are just examples.

But here's the REAL point:

When the feature would or wouldn't work is generally obvious IN PLAY. It's not some end run around the DM. It's a shortcut that COULD be done in a number of other ways, but the feature makes it easier and quicker.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Doesn't exist in the situation at hand. Your ability regarding nobles must always work if there are nobles, and can only not work if there are no nobles in the circumstances at hand for it to work on. Is that that your stance here?

Yes. Haven’t I been clear about that?

There could be an exception. I haven’t had to make any yet.

 

[FrogReaver]

When the feature would or wouldn't work is generally obvious IN PLAY. It's not some end run around the DM. It's a shortcut that COULD be done in a number of other ways, but the feature makes it easier and quicker.

That's like exactly what we've been saying. Why we have 30 pages on this?

 

[Micah Sweet]

No those are just examples.

But here's the REAL point:

When the feature would or wouldn't work is generally obvious IN PLAY. It's not some end run around the DM. It's a shortcut that COULD be done in a number of other ways, but the feature makes it easier and quicker.

I would much rather do it in one of those other ways, probably free role-play coupled with an old school reaction roll with modifiers.