What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[Fenris-77]

The player characters came in through a permanent gate to the feywild, and that gate had been enchanted to relieve anyone passing through of their tuning forks if they have them. The Winter Coup took place a while ago, relative time speaking, and the Winter Court has had time to lock down the feywild and turn its magic to their desires.

I don't see a problem with relieving the players of campaign busting tools. That said, I would probably tell them where those forks are and let them decide if getting them back is worth the trouble. Just making them disappear is a bit of heel turn. IMO, of course.

 

[CreamCloud0]

What do you mean by "GM force"? Is it a synonym for GM fiat?

i think the question is asking if they are the same, it's asking 'can a GM establish anything in the world without it imposing on the player's freedom and thus, be railroading?'

 

[Reynard]

I don't see a problem with relieving the players of campaign busting tools. That said, I would probably tell them where those forks are and let them decide if getting them back is worth the trouble. Just making them disappear is a bit of heel turn. IMO, of course.

Yeah, I realized it was a little heavy handed so I have returned them (in play, so not a retcon) and now they are free to decide what to do.

 

[Celebrim]

i think the question is asking if they are the same, it's asking 'can a GM establish anything in the world without it imposing on the player's freedom and thus, be railroading?'

If the GM establishes nothing, then it's a rowboat world and none of their choices matter because there is nothing to do and no consequences. Someone has to be responsible for establishing something or there is no agency, and in my opinion the game becomes dysfunctional if the same person proposing the problem is proposing the solution. It isn't interesting if the riddle maker answers their own riddle or the if the secret is hashed out in a writer's room.

So I would tend to answer, "Yes, the GM can establish things in the world without it imposing on the player's agency." Players actually need the GMs to do this before they have any meaningful agency.

The rules of Chess don't mean the players of chess don't have agency. Without the rules, they couldn't play and their choices would be meaningless if the opposing pieces (or their own) had no rules.

 

[zakael19]

Yeah, I realized it was a little heavy handed so I have returned them (in play, so not a retcon) and now they are free to decide what to do.

Sounds like we can mark this thread resolved!

400 pages later

 

[Reynard]

Sounds like we can mark this thread resolved!

Narrator: But it wasn't resolved...

 

[GrimCo]

I don't see a problem with relieving the players of campaign busting tools. That said, I would probably tell them where those forks are and let them decide if getting them back is worth the trouble. Just making them disappear is a bit of heel turn. IMO, of course.

Players mysteriously loosing valuable item is basic find & retrieve quest. It's classic hook in ttrpgs since forever. If quests had a fossil record, "you wake up and your important thing is gone" would be in the oldest layer.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The player characters came in through a permanent gate to the feywild, and that gate had been enchanted to relieve anyone passing through of their tuning forks if they have them. The Winter Coup took place a while ago, relative time speaking, and the Winter Court has had time to lock down the feywild and turn its magic to their desires.

So it is the Winter Court that altered the gates to steal the forks? Why are they doing this? Also, while they are at it, why not make it steal other spells components, weapons and magic items too? After all, the intruders are way easier to handle then, and if they prove to be trustworthy, the items can always be returned.

Yeah, I think it is somewhat contrived to have the gate set to steal this one item, and also now that is is established that such magic exist, I as a player would be paranoid about what else it could be used for.

 

[Tigris]

Players mysteriously loosing valuable item is basic find & retrieve quest. It's classic hook in ttrpgs since forever. If quests had a fossil record, "you wake up and your important thing is gone" would be in the oldest layer.

Yeah but thats a good sign its most likely bad.

Gamedesign evolved, and learned from the errors of the past. If one does still the same thing as 40 years ago, than it can with verry good chance be done better.

 

[GrimCo]

Yeah but thats a good sign its most likely bad.

Gamedesign evolved, and learned from the errors of the past. If one does still the same thing as 40 years ago, than it can with verry good chance be done better.

I would disagree. Just cause it's old, doesn't mean it's bad. It's simple and effective plot hook that works. You can have better or worse framing and execution, but from adventure design point, it's solid. It gives party clear short term goal, removes analysis paralysis and gets game going.