What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[GrimCo]

@pemerton

Thanks for the example. I'm not familiar with Apocalypse World or Mythic bastionland, but i get the gist.

In this case, it was more problem with players themselves. They wanted character driven sandbox, but they aren't really group for that kind of play. They are reactive for most part, but this kind of game requires pro active players.

 

[FrogReaver]

It isn't about what the characters see, it's about how the GM goes about setting up their walled garden adventure.

If one wants to use the railroad it's a tool in the box, but at minimum they should get the player buy-in that occasionally the Adventure Express will show up and deliver them to Missiontown.

I recently converted a sandbox campaign to instead a 5e conversion of Age of Worms. Part of this process was having a conversation with the players and making sure they knew that the walls and keep off the grass signs were going up in the playground.

I can steal the PCs items by GM fiat, and have doors literally impossible to bypass without fulfilling Quest 27 without guilt because all the players signed up for that experience. I would never use those tools when I was running the sandbox game.

I don't know how the NPCs in OPs game stole the tuning forks....but in a sandbox game I believe it's important to work within the rules of the universe as expected by the players. As far as I know any sort of "Every person ever teleporting to this plan has their items stolen and delivered to me" isnt a magical effect in the power level of a mortal, fey, or even most gods.

Were I running it I'd have spiked that fey-cabin Deck of Many Things draw with the classic devils bargain and have the dealer demand payment in the form of the tuning fork before they went through the portal. The obviously fey connected entity is working for the Winter Court and helping them achieve their goal of collecting wayward travellers in a way that the players can react to and respond with agency.

You said a lot but didn’t really answer my question. Surely tuning forks can legitimately be stolen. How does a legitimate case of that look to the character as opposed to an illegitimate railroading case?

 

[FrogReaver]

It looks like GM fiat, which is why I don’t do it.

What doesn’t look like GM fiat?

 

[TwoSix]

What doesn’t look like GM fiat?

An encounter in which the players can make meaningful decisions as to how to proceed.

"A thief stealing something via off-screen resolution methods that the players have no access to" is only principled play for games where you assume sim/trad principles. That being that the fiction gets its own turn and can act with agency independent of the player's resolution methods.

I understand that's a very common methodology for D&D play. But I try to avoid it wherever possible as I find it irksome. The "thief does something to the players that they can't see" is a classic case of the play I want to avoid.

 

[FrogReaver]

An encounter in which the players can make meaningful decisions as to how to proceed.

"A thief stealing something via off-screen resolution methods that the players have no access to" is only principled play for games where you assume sim/trad principles. That being that the fiction gets its own turn and can act with agency independent of the player's resolution methods.

I understand that's a very common methodology for D&D play. But I try to avoid it wherever possible as I find it irksome. The "thief does something to the players that they can't see" is a classic case of the play I want to avoid.

Curious. How does a character in a game that doesn’t do that have something stolen from them without immediately knowing it?

Is it ‘tell the player’ and have them ‘pretend they don’t know the item was stolen’?

 

[TwoSix]

Curious. How does a character in a game that doesn’t do that have something stolen from them without immediately knowing it?

Is it ‘tell the player’ and have them ‘pretend they don’t know the item was stolen’?

I just don't do "you had something stolen" storylines. In my experience, it doesn't lead to compelling gameplay.

I haven't had players clamoring to be pickpocketed from, well, ever.

 

[FrogReaver]

I just don't do "you had something stolen" storylines. In my experience, it doesn't lead to compelling gameplay.

I haven't had players clamoring to be pickpocketed from, well, ever.

good to know but my question wasn’t whether you do ‘stolen item storylines’, it was how they would be done using the framework you suggested.

 

[TwoSix]

good to know but my question wasn’t whether you do ‘stolen item storylines’, it was how they would be done using the framework you suggested.

Not sure. I've never tried.

 

[FrogReaver]

Not sure. I've never tried.

Brilliant!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Also, not all trad games are D&D, or based on an iteration of its rules. I can name a dozen off the top of my head. Completely different games.

I suspect that poster wasn't so much saying they were as saying that they weren't different in ways that matter to them.