What is the essence of D&D

[Garthanos]

That's an improvement over a few 4E adventures in Dungeon.

They certainly didnt start out highlighting how to use the system well did they but I am not much for modules regarless of edition (I might steal from one) - As I have said Dungeons were pretty much nonsense till we started doing outdoor and cityscape and similar adventures

 

[Garthanos]

Are you PWD?

OCD?

 

[S'mon]

OCD?

OK!

 

[Garthanos]

PWD

PWD Password
PWD Public Works Department
PWD Portuguese Water Dog (breed)
PWD Print Working Directory (Unix command)
PWD Pine Wilt Disease (agriculture)P and dry (skin assessment)

 

[S'mon]

PWD

PWD Password
PWD Public Works Department
PWD Portuguese Water Dog (breed)
PWD Print Working Directory (Unix command)
PWD Pine Wilt Disease (agriculture)P and dry (skin assessment)

You didn't click the link, eh?

 

[Garthanos]

You didn't click the link, eh?

nO ;P i could be much more relaxed if that were the case ... but its 5:35 am for me

 

[Garthanos]

Never mind just repeating myself my brain seems over heated .. going to see if sleep is doable.

 

[pemerton]

Yep! You saw this in eg @pemerton's discussing of his campaign. I saw it with small-e epic stuff like P2 Demon Queen's Enclave, which led to some great scenes.

Thanks for the shout-out!

I read @Campbell's post that you quoted. I don't agree with him that 4e was "really bad at being Dungeons and Dragons " D&D is multiple things. It certaintly includes B/X and/or AD&D dungeon- and hex-crawling, and I agree that 4e is bad at that. But D&D has also, both in presentation and occasionally in the details of play, aspired to heroic fantasy. The Foreword to Moldvay Basic is a classic instance of this in terms of presentation; and an adventure like Speaker in Dreams (3E original series of modules) is an instance of an attempt at making heroic fantasy the heart of the play of the game.

There is a strand to D&D - monsters not just as HD-based challenges but as manifestations of a conflicted cosmos; PCs as heroes, sometimes super-heroes, who will save or transform that cosmos - which 4e was exemplary at.

 

[Garthanos]

Thanks for the shout-out!

I read @Campbell's post that you quoted. I don't agree with him that 4e was "really bad at being Dungeons and Dragons " D&D is multiple things. It certaintly includes B/X and/or AD&D dungeon- and hex-crawling, and I agree that 4e is bad at that. But D&D has also, both in presentation and occasionally in the details of play, aspired to heroic fantasy. The Foreword to Moldvay Basic is a classic instance of this in terms of presentation; and an adventure like Speaker in Dreams (3E original series of modules) is an instance of an attempt at making heroic fantasy the heart of the play of the game.

There is a strand to D&D - monsters not just as HD-based challenges but as manifestations of a conflicted cosmos; PCs as heroes, sometimes super-heroes, who will save or transform that cosmos - which 4e was exemplary at.

This!! And for me my D&D finally fulfilled on promises which earlier editions had made and in so doing allowed me as a player to play character types mentioned and evoked but never quite realized.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Irrelevant people like it. It's D&D.

I want to refute that, but I'm having trouble coming up with examples of relevant people who like D&D....

I once had a Drow mage cast a 1e Fireball in a 10' x 10' tunnel and wipe out the Fighter PC's entire 120-strong army of followers!

Essence of D&D, right there.

;(

...


I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but I'm just going to skip the personal bits and stick to the topic:

... this topic lies entirely in the domain of perceptions.

Not entirely. The perception in question is 4e being NOT D&D.

I'm just assuming that. I don't think it needs to be argued. The phenomenon of the Edition War needn't be re-examined in detail, it's mere existence stands as ample evidence of that perception.

Given that, it's a matter of looking at the commonalities of other eds and how 4e conformed with or deviated from them.

The Primacy of Magic not only fits the bill, it's a very prominent feature.

A spellpattern, not AEDU. What they bolt onto that isn't to important IMHO or if they can regain a few spots on short rests etc.

Imagine if martial classes got as many and powerful (albeit, with cosmetically different mechanics) maneuvers as casters did spells. The spellpattern would be preserved, but the Primacy of Magic erased.
Think it'd be received as really D&D?

Being able to repeat a casting of ANY spell or use ANY slot for something else is huge dude you cannot do that in 1e through 4e... but damn straight you can in 5e

What Vancian meant changed radically over time. In 3e spontaneous casting was seen as an an alternative to Vancian (even though 3e Clerics & Druids could spontaneously use prepped slots to cast specific spell). In 5e, neo-Vancian co-opted it.