What is the essence of D&D

[Campbell]

That's just you though, there's not one true way to play D&D.

I think that's a big mistake 4E made. They tried to present a unified way to play based off assumptions of forum posts and the RPGA but most people don't play D&D in organised play.

I would argue that only Fourth Edition and to a lesser extent Fifth Edition is good at heroic fantasy. It's only good at it, but it enabled a style of play that was lacking in other editions. Fifth Edition in my experience is decent, but not great at both heroic fantasy and dungeon crawls. It's a bit better at heroic fantasy than it is at dungeon crawls.

 

[Zardnaar]

I saw people intentionally pulling punches not inerupting mages at low levels. They were fighting the system

Once again not denying your experiences.

I've interrupted mages, my players try.

We used weapon speeds and casting times. Doesn't really benefit wizards using those rules.

You can't really nail down a one true way to play D&D.

The best you can do is keep most of the people happy most of the time.

 

[Garthanos]

Once again not denying your experiences.

Bull your 4e Doesnt do D&D is exactly denying my experience

You can't really bail down a one true way to play D&D.

You seem fine with it when its someone elses flavor

The system fought against the experience I was seeking and seemed to encourage fantasy Vietnam and easy death sometimes even at high levels ... of course years later found out Arneson skipped levels and so did Gygax. But I also found levels 9+ left a still useless thief and a fighter already turning into a side kick sensation.

 

[Campbell]

When I run B/X I do not pull punches. I try my best to play the world with integrity and remain as neutral as possible. That being said I would never try to use it for heroic fantasy. I have so many other games that are better at heroic fantasy.

 

[Garthanos]

4E was good at being an advanced minis skirmish game. Wasn't so good at everything else.

Because that is different than me saying 1e was designed to and did fantasy Vietnam and fought against anything else.

 

[Garthanos]

4e does heroic fiction experiences and that apparently is a Minis skirmish gam

 

[Zardnaar]

Bull your 4e Doesnt do D&D is exactly denying my experience

You seem fine with it when its someone elses flavor

The system fought against the experience I was seeking and seemed to encourage fantasy Vietnam and easy death sometimes even at high levels ... of course years later found out Arneson skipped levels and so did Gygax. But I also found levels 9+ left a still useless thief and a fighter already turning into a side kick sensation.

I don't think most people played high level in AD&D.

Back then if you don't like it just don't play it. It's what it was it's not for everyone.

I've never claimed 4E is a bad game but it wasn't the first it was the 4th part of a franchise.

It didn't offer what most people wanted so people went and played Pathfinder, or OSR or stuck with 3.5.

If you had fun with 4E that's great but it ticked boxes for people on forums to argue about it didn't have the appeal for most of the playerbase.

 

[Garthanos]

That's just you though

No it wasnt... some people just liked it that way

 

[Zardnaar]

4e does heroic fiction experiences and that apparently is a Minis skirmish gam

I played the minis game. It was designed by the same people who designed 4E. A 4E combat took a similar amount of time to play as a D&DM game.

It felt like a more advanced version of that with tick the box type powers.

4E combat could've fun but it took so long you couldn't do 3 or 4 combats in a session and have time for anything else.

I played a 3 hour session if 5E last week, had two encounters which lasted an hour or less and the other 2 hours were other stuff.

 

[Garthanos]

I played a 3 hour session if 5E last week, had two encounters which lasted an hour or less and the other 2 hours were other stuff.

I would rather a three hour combat that was interesting than a half hour of I hit the boring bag of hit points with my sword oh with a smite tacked on so it's really really hard and who needs a rest of the party.

I am fine with the time it takes to get things done in 4e I am even more fine with teamwork and heroic feeling martial characters who arent looking to the spell casters to make it NOT be 10 x as hard. (to quote the pdf mentioned earlier)