What is "The Forge?"

[d20Dwarf]

If you have any questions about it, there is a publishing forum and friendly folks who have some experience in this arena and will gladly answer questions.



You totally are denigrating 'em, man. C'mon. Their cute lil' games.

Down a peg or five? Ya lost me.

The proof isn't in the pudding, the proof is in their goals.

If their goal was to publish a game, own their intellectual property, break even/make a profit and see their vision in print, then they won. They don't need to play the distribution game by the same rules as you big ole publishers do (there is a GNS joke here but I can't quite spit it out ).

They can publish a game, make some cash, continue working their day-jobs and when they hear people are playing their game and having fun, feel like geek rock stars.

Where's the harm in that?

The Forge is saying, "This isn't an isolated incident."

The Forge is saying, "If you have an idea and are willing to work at it and make it solid, playtest it and bring it to life, you can see it in print without taking out a mortgage on your house."

The Forge is saying, "Come play."

What's the harm in that?

I don't understand the grief.

I'm not representing a big publisher. I am not a big publisher. I have many games in print and I have not taken a mortgage out on my house. I do not own the IP. Many people have done all the things you talk about on RPG Now, yet, the Forge is different. The Forge claims that its games are superior to all games that came before, and that all commercial games are somehow influenced by them. This clearly is madcap, insular nonsense that gets in the way of the simple message you've outlined above.

What you've outlined above can be achieved at many places, by many people, most if not all of whom are not influenced by the Forge at all. If the Forge would stop talking crazy, some people might be willing to regard them as something other than nonsense-spouting blowhards. But if they keep saying things like "our theories revolutionized games and all games owe their pedigree to the Forge!" then their message will be drowned out by lunacy.

Small publishers? Love 'em.
Creators owning IP? Love it!
Vanity press with a messiah complex? Not my thing.

As long as the Forge continues to assert their dominance of RPG thought, I will continue to provide examples of their lunacy. I've never seen anything come out of the Forge that revolutionized anything. They're just codifying house rules, or giving voice and creating indecipherable jargon for theories that are obvious to anyone with half a brain that takes the time to think about RPGs as games and activities. The emperor has no clothes.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It's not completely clear what you mean by 'narrative'.

I don't see that as a barrier to understanding. It's obvious what I was getting out of the scenario, based on my descriptions. I define narrative as "more of that." Now you have an idea what I mean by it, and if I bring it up again, you might remember. The reason why the GNS debates don't make any sense to me is because I think that so long as the terms are taken as placeholders for non-discrete aspects of the gaming experience, you can leave some wiggle-room.

You seem to be trying either to force me to define my terms or to paint me into a corner with them, or both, in an effort to discredit GNS theory, although I may be overstating your efforts. I just see GNS as a handy way to talk about gaming. Different versions of the term "je ne sais quoi", as in, "that certain special je ne sais quoi." Only there are 3 of them and they're defined against each other in a loose fashion.

Edit:

I think what makes me care about GNS is that I can sit back and think about my fellow players, and I can peg them with it. And whether or not my definitions are the same as someone else's definitions, I can still peg my players. I can put them on the GNS triangular continuum and it will tell me information about their preferred play style. I can use this information both as a player and as a GM to help facilitate the game so that it goes in directions that all of us can agree on. And I can use it to talk them into doing the same. So the game is more enjoyable for all. Which, again, is not simulationist, but metagame. Enjoyment is the point of the game, not one of several goals that could be realized. GNS just describes three non-exclusive ways to enjoy a game.

 

[d20Dwarf]

You'll understand when you're 10th.

But I'm 15th-level! Hey, where's my sig?!?!

 

[mythusmage]

But I'm 15th-level! Hey, where's my sig?!?!

As a free-lancer. Publisher is a different skill set altogether.

 

[Paka]

As long as the Forge continues to assert their dominance of RPG thought, I will continue to provide examples of their lunacy. I've never seen anything come out of the Forge that revolutionized anything. They're just codifying house rules, or giving voice and creating indecipherable jargon for theories that are obvious to anyone with half a brain that takes the time to think about RPGs as games and activities. The emperor has no clothes.

You talk about The Forge as if it were this single entity (cue Cult of Ron barb) but it isn't. It is a community where people get together and talk about how to make their gaming experience better and how to publish games.

Sure there are other places that do that. God bless 'em.

I dunno, we'll just agree to disagree.

What examples of lunacy?

 

[pogre]

But I'm 15th-level! Hey, where's my sig?!?!

You only get it once a thread. You would know that if you were 16th level.

 

[d20Dwarf]

You talk about The Forge as if it were this single entity (cue Cult of Ron barb) but it isn't. It is a community where people get together and talk about how to make their gaming experience better and how to publish games.

Sure there are other places that do that. God bless 'em.

I dunno, we'll just agree to disagree.

What examples of lunacy?

"But unlike it's predecessors, this system is versatile and powerful..."

There's a prime example from Burning Wheel (not to pick on it, but it's fresh ).

Or, "D&D, Shadowrun, and HERO are all directly influenced by the theories of the Forge."

Lunacy.

 

[Paka]

"But unlike it's predecessors, this system is versatile and powerful..."

There's a prime example from Burning Wheel (not to pick on it, but it's fresh ).

Or, "D&D, Shadowrun, and HERO are all directly influenced by the theories of the Forge."

Lunacy.

Yeah, I hate it when people ask what's so good about a game and the game designer comes on and tries to answer.

That's lunacy.

He even posted what he is willing to do in order to defend his claim.

Pieces of indie RPG's that have filtered through gaming circles have turned up in other games. That doesn't sound so whack to me.

Focus on what you want to focus on. *shrug*

I'll be playing fun games (well, okay, I'll still be here at work but you get the point ).

 

[d20Dwarf]

Yeah, I hate it when people ask what's so good about a game and the game designer comes on and tries to answer.

That's lunacy.

He even posted what he is willing to do in order to defend his claim.

Pieces of indie RPG's that have filtered through gaming circles have turned up in other games. That doesn't sound so whack to me.

Focus on what you want to focus on. *shrug*

I'll be playing fun games (well, okay, I'll still be here at work but you get the point ).

I play fun games too. I don't even tell other people their games suck and are wrong and are wholly derivative of the games I play. But I guess some people need that self-congratulation.

 

[Paka]

I play fun games too. I don't even tell other people their games suck and are wrong and are wholly derivative of the games I play. But I guess some people need that self-congratulation.

Show me the thread where a Forge member told another gamer that their game sucked.

Show it to me.