D&D 5E What is the logic behind one 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell?

[bleezy]

Some high level spells like Timestop and Forcecage don't require concentration, so limiting spell slots presents a new way to limit those effects, so that a high level caster can still have multiple ongoing effects.

 

[Umbran]

The OP was inexact, that's all.

Ah. That makes sense. Thank you.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Now who's adding things? I think a much more likely scenario would be villagers taken over by some evil being, or people convinced by some outside force of your evil nature (the soldiers following Nazi orders were just normal people after all)..

OK, so I am putting together a scenario with pregen PCs... all the players know is that it is to test a crazy scenario I found on the internet, and it will be high level characters...

SO my scenario... take the Mind flayer and a town... the flayer boosted his mind control and will be attacking the PCs mid long rest...

I have 3 players. So I have to choose my pregens carefully, I need 1 full caster, 1 no caster, and 1 inbetween, but I'm not sure what yet.

I figure population 550 people, 65 of them are old enough or sick enough not to matter, 35 of them 'made there save' so 450 controlled usable targets.

right off the bat 365 of them are commoners (MMpg345) fluff wise some of these are women and children...

town guard/milita 20 guards (MM pg347) 2 Knights (MMpg347), 8 Veterans (MMpg 350), 4 scouts (MMpg 349), 1 gladiator (MMpg 346)

10 Nobles (MM pg348) refluffed as merchents

each of those merchants have an ally/employee so 4 Guards, 3 Veterans, 1 Thug (MMpg 350), 1 gladiator, 1 scout,

a thieves guild/ gang about 25 strong... 3 spys, 1 assassin, 7 thugs, 13 bandits (MMpg 343),1 Bandit Captain (MMpg 342)

A local mage (MMpg 347)
1 priest (MMpg348) with 3 Acolytes (MMpg 342)


The set up is simple, the PCs are attacked with no warning... they need to figure out it's the mind flayer that escaped 3 levels ago looking for revenge. They have to not only survive the town, but track the flayer...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

365 commoners (MMpg345) cr 0 10xp (3650xp)
24 guards (MM pg347) cr 1/8 25xp (600xp)
2 Knights (MMpg347) cr 3 700xp (1400xp)
11 Veterans (MMpg 350) cr3 700xp (7700xp)
5 scouts (MMpg 349) cr 1/2 100xp (500xp)
2 gladiator (MMpg 346) cr 5 1,800xp (3600xp)
10 Nobles (MM pg348) cr 1/8 25xp (250xp)
8 Thug (MMpg 350) cr1/2 100xp (800xp)
3 spys MMpg 349) cr1 200xp (600xp)
1 assassin (MMpg 343) cr 8 3900xp (3900xp)
13 bandits (MMpg 343) cr 1/8 25xp (325xp)
1 Bandit Captain (MMpg 342) cr 2 450xp (450xp)
1 mage (MMpg 347) cr 6 2300xp (2300xp)
1 priest (MMpg348) cr 2 450 xp (450xp)
3 Acolytes (MMpg 342) cr 1/4 50xp (150xp)

so grand total is 26,675xp or 8,891.7 xp per player... I would round that off to 9k if I were running this as an ongoing...
and that darn assassin is worth more then all the commoners together...

I also am spiceing it up by adding 7 magic items to the town... 1 veteran has a +1 longsword, and another has Adamantine splint armor, One of the knights has a figurine of wondrous power horse, one of the Nobles has both a +1 weapon and a ring of protection, 1 of the gladiators has a +2 defending weapon and the Assassin has a +2 keen dagger (crit 19+)

all of that seems atleast to me with in the spirit of DMing this encounter (not to mention I have to actualy make it fun for the PCs playing)

edit: forgot
Mind FLayer (MMpg 221-222) cr 7 2,900xp
wow he is weaker then the assassin he is controlling... funny but I'm giving him 2 more magic things... a head band of intellect 20, and a mystic/psychic room that works like cerebro from x-men movies/comics as the mcguffen letting him control a whole town...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So ok lets do this… yea 3 18th level PCs…

Lav’en’akshi is a Drow woman who ran away from home as a young adult and never stoped running… today she goes by the name Akshi the Shadow dancer…
Female Drow Charlton lv 18 Monk (way of shadow) 6/ Rogue (arcane trickster) 6/ Bard (College of lore) 6
Str 11, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 20
Spell slots 4/3/3/2
Addit magic secret (9+2 spells), counter charm, cutting words, bardic inspiration d8, expertise(2), jack of all trades, 4 cantrips
Expertise (4), 3d6 sneak attack uncanny dodge, cunning action, Mage hand trick, 4spells, 3 cantrips
unarmed 1d6, 6 ki pts, 45ft mv, shadow arts shadow step
3 feat: Actor, Keen Mind, Martial Adept
Spells known:
Cantrips: Friends, Prestidigitation, True strike, Vicious Mockery, Minor illusion, Mage hand, Message, Blade ward, Druid craft
1st Cure wounds, Identify, Speak w/animals, Detect magic, Silent image, Disguise self, shield
2nd Detect Thoughts, Invisibility, Hold person, blinding smite
3rd Speak w/ dead, Non detection, dispel magic
18d8+36 (122hp)
Skills: Acrobatics(expertise), Deception(expertise), Insight (expertise), Persuasion, Performance, Stealth(expertise), Sleigh of hands
Prof: Theives tools (expertise), Recorder, Disguise kit, Forgery Kit
False Identity
Magic items- Cloak of protection (+1 saves), Shadow mark tattoos (monk unarmed damge as 5 levels higher), +1 hand crossbow, 6 doses of drow sleep poison,

Val’mar is a human wizard who originally set out to be a hero, but got stick with a bunch of mercs and hulagins. His heart is in the right place, but it also has some caluses on it.

Male human Sage 18 Wizard (invoker)
Str 12 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 20 Wis 16 Cha 12
Spell slots 4/3/3/3/3/1/1/1/1
Arcane Recovery 9 Spell Mastery Shield, Magic Missile
Sculpt spell, powerful cantrip, Empowered evocations, over channel
Keen Mind, Linguistic, observant, war caster
Spells Preped:
Cantrip Acid Splash, Light, Poison spray, Ray of frost, Shocking grasp
1st Mage armor, Burning hands
2nd Misty step, spider climb, scorching ray
3rd Fire ball, lighting bolt, counter spell, dispel magic
4Th Fire Shield, Stone skin
5th Cone of Cold, Legend lore, pass wall, Telekinesis, Wall of stone
6th Arcane gate, Disintegrate
7th Finger of Death, Delayed blast fireball
8th Anti Magic field, feeble mind
9th Time Stop
Magic items- Pearl of power level 6, Pearl of power level 3, Wand of +1 save DC, Ring of protection +1, +1 lighting dagger (+1d6 electric damage)
Hp 18d6+36 ( 98hp)
Sir Talian
Yea, he’s not really a knight, but he likes the title sir, it makes him feel important. He is mostly a thug, but one that isn’t really evil per say.
Half elf 18th level Soldier Fighter (battle master) 18

Str 20 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 15 Cha 14
6d12 Superiority Dice
Maneuvers: Disarming attack, Feinting attack, Lunging attack, Maneuvering attack, Parry, Rally, Riposte, Sweeping attack, Trip attack
Relentless, Know your enemy, Student of War, Second wind, Action Surge
Extra Attacks, Indomitable, Fighting style (Defensive)
Feats: Lucky, Mage Slayer, Savage Attacker, Inspiring Leader, 3 stat bumps
18d10+54 ( 161hp)
Magic items: +1 flaming long sword, +1 Shield, +1 long bow, +1 chain armor, Ring of spell storing (hast), 20 flaming arrows

 

[DaveDash]

I believe the point SilverFireSage was making is that low level creatures are now still a threat due to bounded accuracy, and it's true.

Here is an example of play that I partook in recently.

Party:
1. Level 17 Battlemaster Fighter (strength based).
2. Level 17 Abjurer Wizard
3. Level 17 Fighter (Champion )11/Sorcerer 6 (ranged based)
4. Level 17 War Cleric.

The Fighter/Sorc archer had foresight on him, which is an extremely potent combination with sharpshooter. Foresight used in this way is probably the most damaging spell in the game by far. You will enable another such character to do an extra multiple hundred damage per fight, and over the course of an adventuring day, hundreds of extra damage.

Opponents (note my CR's here are approximations, I cannot remember exactly):
1 Vampire (Spell caster variant). CR15
1 Vampire Spawn. CR5
3 Winter Wolves. CR3
16 Skeleton's (spawned later in combat). CR1/4
1 Wraith (spawned later in combat). CR5

The fight started in a crypt with the PC's heading down a narrow stairway into the tomb. The vampire, vampire spawn, and winter wolves were visible as the party came down the stairs. It went (roughly) like this:

1. Wizard gets a wall of force (5) off around the vampire and vampire spawn.
2. Winter Wolves run up to the party and blast them with their icey breath, doing a fair amount of damage. The party is stuck in the entrance with no way forward.
3. Cleric casts etherealness (8) on everyone except the Wizard
4. Wizard casts blink (3) and goes to the ethereal plane
5. Wolves fall back since they have no targets, vampires shake fists from within wall of force.
6. Cleric casts bless (1) on ethereal party members (excluding the Wizard) and they surround the wolves. Archer casts Haste (3) on himself.
7. Wizard blinks back into the tomb, out of sight from the wolves around a corner.
8. Cleric dismisses etherealness, party attacks wolves.
9. Wolves are dispatched.
10. Vampires do more fist shaking.
11. Skeletons burst out of tombs lining the walls of the crypt, about 16 of them. 4 are looking at the Wizard, 4 are looking at the Archer, 4 at the Cleric, and 4 at the Fighter.
12. The Fighter takes some damage, Wizard has his arcane ward, Archer has foresight and haste so he is impossible to hit, and Cleric has damage resistance so shrugs off what little damage he takes.
13. Wizard fireballs (3) his lot of skeletons, Archer multi attacks all of his group and easily takes them down, Cleric runs up to his group and uses a turn undead, destroying them outright, Fighter huffs and puffs and runs towards his group of skeletons, vampires shake fists.
14. Wraith lurks around in the darkness hunting down the Wizard.
15. Skeletons pepper the Fighter with arrows. He's level 17, and has taken about 30 damage from CR1/4 creatures so far. He does manage to cut down a couple throwing hand axes, and eventually with the help of Archer, finishes off his group.
16. Wraith pops out to kill Wizard, but Wizard has arcane ward and shrugs off the attacks. The wraith promptly dies.
17. Cleric casts holy aura (8) in preparation for vampire fight, Wizard dismisses wall of force, and the party attacks.
18. Vampire tries to get the hell out of dodge using legendary actions climbing up the wall, Vampire spawn gets turned and cowers in a corner.
19. Vampire casts blight on the Cleric, (Wizard is blinked, Archer has foresight, Fighter is a bag of hit points, his [the Vampires] rational was to break the Clerics concentration on Holy Aura). Cleric saves, takes a bit of damage, but makes his concentration check.
20. Archer begins peppering Vampire with sharpshooter arrows, Cleric throws sacred flames (0) at him to attempt to stop his regeneration, Wizard blasts him with scorching rays (2). Fighter shakes his hands angrily at vampire from down below.
21. Vampire is taking a beating, and decides it's better to get out of here, and uses invisibility and legendary actions to try and retreat.
22. Party expends some resources locating him, but eventually take him down before he can escape.

All in all this fight was challenging in terms of resource expenditure, and lower CR monsters still had an impact on the fight. In fact, the most damage was done by CR3 Winter Wolves and CR1/4 skeletons. That's the action economy and bounded accuracy in effect.

 

[travathian]

OK, so I am putting together a scenario with pregen PCs... all the players know is that it is to test a crazy scenario I found on the internet, and it will be high level characters...

Can you guys delete you posts and start your own thread? Maybe provide a link to it as an example?

edit: And frankly, if you want to make it interesting, the party should be 4 characters, let actual players make the characters, and see how low level the players can be and still win. Notice I said win, not kill everyone. It is foolish to think most high level PCs are so stupid as to assume the townsfolk would attack them for no reason, when most of the townsfolk would get slaughtered in the process.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Can you guys delete you posts and start your own thread? Maybe provide a link to it as an example?

no I wont delete my very on topic posts... but I will fork my thread for you...

OK, I was asked to fork this thread.


Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...l-PC-vs-town-lFqW-reborn-or-not#ixzz3K3Vetsdi

edit: didn't we used to have a fork button?

 

[Sadras]

And frankly, if you want to make it interesting, the party should be 4 characters, let actual players make the characters, and see how low level the players can be and still win. Notice I said win, not kill everyone. It is foolish to think most high level PCs are so stupid as to assume the townsfolk would attack them for no reason, when most of the townsfolk would get slaughtered in the process.

Agreed there should be 4 characters and they should be designed by the players so not to have DM allotted powers/spells. However, there is to be no remorse in this encounter, it is a battle to the death as the original poster made a comment of a PC nuking a village. That is pretty evident that ethics and morals are out the window in that scenario.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Agreed there should be 4 characters and they should be designed by the players so not to have DM allotted powers/spells.

we got together on an off night. to make characters would have taken too long, and it wasn't a full group it was people free. SO I couldn't do 4 eg made characters...