What is THE NEXT BIG THING?

[mythusmage]

Dragonlancer might not have missed the point you're making, but I certainly have. I see no benefit (from a game point of view) for discarding balance as a goal - such games are only fun if you happen to be the player in the beneficial position (or, in odd cases, if you've agreed to the weaker position in advance, but that won't apply to new players).

I certainly see a marketing advantage to ditching balance - if the new thing is always slightly but noticably more powerful than it's immediate predecessor then players can be caught on an endless power-creep treadmill, where they always have to have the latest books to remain competitive.

But that's a lousy way of building a game when Games Workshop do it, and it would be a lousy way of building a game if Wizards of the Coast were to do it.

So let me ask this; is balance even possible in an RPG? Never mind the desirability, is it even possible?

 

[JVisgaitis]

So let me ask this; is balance even possible in an RPG? Never mind the desirability, is it even possible?

Total balance in an RPG? Never.

 

[mythusmage]

MM, I "get" your point: The "RP" in RPG, and particularly the wide-open nature of play, are the critical differences.

(snip)

But, are those things that make traditional games successful desirable in an RPG? Or do they so restrict play as to make the experience bad?

 

[mythusmage]

Total balance in an RPG? Never.

In any sense?

 

[pogre]

I envision a board that you fold out. The board is a computer platform game. You plug your character cartridges in and a voice issues forth from the platform giving the background for the adventure. The adventure is presented in scenes (much like a cpu game) but with 3d holographics. Your character is presented in miniature.

The platform runs the game and you see monsters attack your character with output of the battle presented on your character card. The platform does all battle calculations instantly and only performs a round of combat once all of the players have put their inputs in their character cards.

The platform comes with a couple of introductory scenarios and others are sold by the company to plug into the platform. Custom scenarios could be created on a card by those with the time, energy, and know-how to do so.

The Character card records events that have occured to the character in the adventure and rejects that particular character card from the given adventure in the future.

No DM. No prep time. Pure adventure with a satisfying 3d experience.

It also saves the face-to-face aspect of the game, but one is not required to play with a certain group - as long as your character is an appropriate level you are good to go.

Would it be as good as D&D to me? Not really, but it's closer and I think it could be quite popular.

 

[Hussar]

How about a way to combine D&D, online play, and the convenience of a play-by-post game?

What D&D really needs is the magical means to allow those of us with kids, jobs, and their share of reality a way to play the game on our terms. Sure, I checked out the local D&D meetup board (I'd never start my own; too bloody expensive for what the service offers). but there are so many people who cannot travel far to game, or who have cat allergies, etc.

I would check out www.openrpg.com for something like this. Openrpg+ is pretty much the best platform on the market. I know there are others that look prettier, but, by and large, you are paying for a pretty interface and that's all.

Honestly, I really hope that the next big thing is a package of OpenRPG with voice and other bells and whistles tied into an adventure and chargen programs that allow me to create Dunjinni quality maps for backgrounds and gives me access to numerous supplements. I don't mind paying for additional packages on top of the basic one.

Getting around the "hard to find a gamer" corner will be the next big thing.

 

[hewligan]

I have had an idea, and I may just explore it further:

Target market: kids, 9-14
Product price: £5-8 ($8-15)
Product format: paperback book, or DC comic size book (but with 128+ pages)

Format is as so:
First few pages contain the rules - very simple rules, easier than M20 or Quick20, but of that essense (so hit points, magic, combat). Can be played with D6 only.
Next few pages contain 4 sample characters (although game can be played with 1 to 4, and explains how to adjust each encounter). Can also make own characters.
Then the campaign hook begins. The book is half story, half adventure. Think of it as a mix of a campaign setting, adventure, and fighting fantasy book (of the old "turn to section 312" style).

What you have is a simple to understand roleplaying game that is cheap, can be played by one person, or more, stresses imagination, but provides a lot of guidance, is by its nature slightly more railroaded than we would like, but more free-form than old Fighting Fantasy books, and is targetted at the young generation, and lastly is available in normal book stores.

Does anyone fancy helping me create a concept one? I can write very well, but my art is mediocre (despite an A in high school), and my rules knowledge is mediocre.

What do you think? Good idea, stinking idea? Also, could possibly be diluted further into a magazine format with a magazine each month containing a development of the story/campaign. This would allow it to be cheaper (£3/$5), and perhaps reach an even bigger market.

EDIT: Just a few more thoughts: by offering each character a limited number of abilities (so maybe only 10 spells to chose from), and making sure there are sufficient balanced encounters, this could almost play out like a card game such as Magic, except that the story element is heavily surrounding this element.

 

[delericho]

So let me ask this; is balance even possible in an RPG? Never mind the desirability, is it even possible?

Of course. Just make all the characters mechanically identical. (It would make for a pretty dull game, but...)

Is balance possible in D&D as-is?

Well, perfect balance is clearly not. Some combinations will always be more potent than others, and since the designers aren't perfect there's no way of avoiding that (or even predicting the combos the Character Optimisation forum will come up with).

However, the game can be broadly balanced, and a certain level of balance can be considered 'good enough'. It is likely that the level of balance that can be achieved is higher than the 'good enough' threshold, such that the DM can weed out the remaining horribly broken areas, and the game will fly.

But it is something that won't come by accident - the designers have to want to make the game balanced, and apply the requisite effort.

IMO, of course.

 

[mythusmage]

Of course. Just make all the characters mechanically identical. (It would make for a pretty dull game, but...)

Is balance possible in D&D as-is?

Well, perfect balance is clearly not. Some combinations will always be more potent than others, and since the designers aren't perfect there's no way of avoiding that (or even predicting the combos the Character Optimisation forum will come up with).

However, the game can be broadly balanced, and a certain level of balance can be considered 'good enough'. It is likely that the level of balance that can be achieved is higher than the 'good enough' threshold, such that the DM can weed out the remaining horribly broken areas, and the game will fly.

But it is something that won't come by accident - the designers have to want to make the game balanced, and apply the requisite effort.

IMO, of course.

I have to disagree, and it comes back to the scope of the game. But rather than continuing to hijack this thread, I'll start another.

Edit: Thread started.

 

[Hussar]

Something I'm quite curious about is why people seem to think that a "Basic" D&D will draw new gamers in. D&D shouldn't IMO, be the gateway game to itself. Sure, it might have been way, way back in the day when the fad was huge, but, that was twenty some years ago. Post, say, 1990, how many gamers were introduced to the hobby through Basic D&D? Even going post 1986, I'm not sure how much you'd see it. Some, I suppose, but, the day when you started with Basic/Expert and then moved up to Advanced has come and very long gone.

To me, the gateway game to D&D is DDM. Think about it for a second. Someone coming to D&D from DDM has most of the combat rules absolutely nailed. They don't need AOO's explained to them, they know exactly how they work. They don't need the majority of the mechanics explained.

I think that WOTC is doing something very smart in making newer modules tie in with minis. I can picture someone who plays minis seeing one of the new format modules and getting interested in the game that way.

Honestly, a D&D CCG would be a fantastic idea. I have no idea how to make it work, but, something that gives the basic mechanics to the early teens crowd and then ties in with products that their older brother's are playing. Perhaps a board game a la Descent. Something like that.