What is THE NEXT BIG THING?

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there yourself Krusty mate.

Hey Nightfall dude!

Yeah well I had the favor of Orcus working in my favor, along with the Scarred Lands looking out for my butt. My brother is younger than I but he did say "Man Nightfall, you are damn lucky to be alive!"

Your brother calls you Nightfall!?

I know that but sense isn't always there when you're in a hurry.

Being in a 'hurry' is running to catch a bus, speeding on wet roads is stupidity.

Sounds like some promising purchases to me Krusty mate.

well lets wait until they are finished before singing their praises.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Your brother calls you Nightfall!?

That's nothing. My dear old ma calls me Frostmarrow.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

That's nothing. My dear old ma calls me Frostmarrow.

That sounds bone-chilling.

 

[cthulhu_duck]

I still think dumbing it down is the way to go to attract new players, casual gamers if you will. These people don't have the patience for the current rules.

They may also not have the patience or interest in campaign play. Casual gamers implies the group that like casual games that can be played quickly - Hero Quest can play for several hours - which is a bit longer than what I'd consider a 'casual game'.

 

[Wolv0rine]

Originally Posted by Upper_Krust
I still think dumbing it down is the way to go to attract new players, casual gamers if you will. These people don't have the patience for the current rules.

Are you serious? Granted the D&D rules are still hefty and all, and some of the rules are a bit tough to wrap some people's heads around (but really, I've never known any gamer who *used* ALL the rules), but... D&D just keeps getting more and more dumbed down. It's an old arguement I grant you, but I was insulted enough when the rules deigned to define a door for me, man.

Do I want the gamer base to grow? Yeah, sure I do. But I don't think the answer can possibly be to make the game more and more idiot-encouraging and get any positive result from that. Boards and mini-based games makes me want to hide in a corner and mumble to myself, it's a terrifying prospect. Boards and minis used in RPGs, cool go ahead and use whatever tools are good for you, but the idea of a future where my gaming revolves around this as an aspect of the rules? Gods save me, I'll be glad that there's always an older Edition to fall back on. But that won't change the direction of where the D&D line will have gone.

Idiot-buffing D&D is antithetical to the concept of the game that got me into this hobby. Maybe I'm just a cranky old gronard, but I still hold to the notion that We waded through Gygax's wonderfully-written, dense, wandering, hard-to-follow-coherently prose and managed to make sense of it without being handed every concept and idea on a silver platter labelled "Platter, Silver: A flat, often metal plate used to carry and present a morsel on". And gamers today should be smart enough to be able to friggin Read AND Comprehend. I mean this is supposed to be one of the prerequisites for leaving grammar school, eh?
*End rant*

 

[Ceresco]

Huh. I am surprised that the D&D Basic Game is not in Wal-mart and Toys-R-Us. It can't be a distribution problem, since the Juggernaunt of the toy world, Hasbro, obviously has pull.

Because Wal-mart will insist on a lower price point for the games (again and again), which will drive WotC/Hasbro's profits down. It is often NOT a good idea to have your product sold at Wal-mart, just ask Rubbermaid.

That said, I bought Ebberon through the Wal-mart estore and got it 45% off. WotC/Hasbro does retail through Wal-mart: The Basic Set

Retail sales is not going to be the NBT. It requires the stereo-typical "out-of-the-box" thinking about the industry and the hobby.

Respectfully,

Edward Kopp
UKon Coordinator
www.warhorn.net/ukon2007/

 

[cthulhu_duck]

Basically all we are trying to do is boil the game down to the fun elements and get rid of the minutiae of micro-management.

Some people enjoy the micro-management.

As you remove elements that some enjoy, you potentially lose that chunk of the market - to whit:

Also it will be more fun for the DM because they can play a more adversarial role.

- when I GM, I don't want to play an adversarial role. When I play, I don't want a game where the GM runs the game in an adversarial fashion. If you make a game like you suggest, the odds are I won't buy or play it.

Additionally, how do you sell the game to new players? If you have a board, minis and cards I think you would attract far more people, especially young kids, families and casual gamers.

Thinking of those who've joined my local rpg groups in the last couple of years, there were two common factors amidst them:

1) They also played wargames, and found their way into playing rpgs through rpg gamers in the wargames club; and / or

2) They had started with computer rpg games like Baldur's Gate, and then found out about the tabletop hobby.

DDM already address the first factor there - it's essentially a tactical wargame that could encourage people to look into the tabletop game. The second factor is somewhat addressed by DDO, but I'm not sure that there's anything feeding people from that into the tabletop hobby.

Rather than creating a dumbed down game that competes with the full game, why not create a game in a different section of the games market that can provide a player with a lead into the tabletop hobby?

(as I write this, I'm thinking maybe the problem facing RPGs is their frigging name.)

WOTC refer to D&D as an 'adventure game' from time to time don't they?

 

[Ceresco]

Outside the Box

I'm suprised I haven't seen any mention of how to make the gaming experinece a more fully integrated part of a persons entertainment budget. My experience within the resturant & hospitality business is that if you have a quality product and aren't seeing the sales you expect then you need to concentrate on SERVICE.

And where does this come into play the most as far as affecting your game play? The DM. A highly qualified and experienced DM almost always makes the difference in how much fun you have at the table. Professional DMs and the products to support the business of entertaining the fan at the convention and online play will be the NBT.

I've been exploring this idea for years now. I think the time is nigh! Just look at what Sean Patrick Fannon has to say about the subject. This is the direction I want to see the rpg hobby headed. This is the kind of movement I can whole heartedly get behind and work my patootie off to make it a reality. I believe the day of the professional DM is just around the corner.

Respectfully,

Edward Kopp
UKon Coordinator
www.warhorn.net/ukon2007/

 

[DragonLancer]

Yes but back then D&D wasn't competing with so many other hobbies.

Can't argue with that.

Well I wasn't speaking from personal experience, it was never a problem for me, but it is a problem I have heard from others.

Also you didn't address the problem of the time it can take for DMs to setup adventures.

I didn't, and I should have. It's one reason why I ask, nay, demand, a level of commitment from my players. They all have busy lives with work and families (3 out of 6 of us have kids), and they make time and the effort to get away from all that to come and spend a few hours every Sunday night playing D&D for the social, stress-relief and fun aspects of the game.

Lets also point out that even though £17 UK is equal to £30 US, no vendor ever sells at that price, it will always be £20 or more.

The problem there is that there is such a small markup for retailers on gaming stuff. It's an aspect of this business that can't be helped unfortunately.

Roleplaying isn't in a book, or a box or on a board. Its what you invest of yourself into the game. Having a board, minis and cards doesn't change that.

What those things do is 'help' the gamer, not hinder any roleplaying experience.

Correct, though for me it would not be the same game. Theres evolving with the times as anything must, but thats not the direction I would want it to go. If RPG's went that way, it would seriously turn me off. If I want to play a game like has been described, I'd drag out my copy of Talisman or Runebond.

But part of the problem is that you can't easily sell D&D (in its current incarnation) on television. Its not visual enough. Heck you can't really give demonstrations in a store either.

Which is another problem. There just isn't any really effective way of getting to the non-gamers, and getting them to take an interest in the gaming hobby and we need to find a way to do that IMO if the gaming hobby is to continue in the face of consoles and online games.

My FLGS runs Thursday evenings as RPG night. Theres a couple groups playing in store (A classic Runequest that I play in, and another group which cycles through Call of Cthulhu, Serenity and a few others) and the store is open for folks to come in. Our hope is that people will come in for a look or to pick up a boardgame, see the RPG's and take an interest. It has happened for a few, thankfully. While RPG's don't make for a great visual watch, playing one in store gets questions asked and maybe some interest.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I believe the day of the professional DM is just around the corner.

Tavis Allison tried something similar from Behemoth3 with his Otherworld Excursions. I think he also ran seminars on it. As the person that ends up DMing all the time, I'd certainly pay for a professional DM from time to time so I can play alongside all my friends. Problem with that is unless there is a good interface to play games online, its not going to happen.