Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[FrogReaver]

The point is that you're taking options the players used to have away from them, and moving them to the DM, who can dole them out again if he feels like it. That's not a good plan IMO, and I think I'm not alone there, especially in a salable product.

The point I am making is that you’ll never get the fighter right if you believe he’s balanced with a wizard as is right now. Whether you decide to nerf the wizard or take the fighter up you need to understand the point it becomes unbalanced.

Then you have to ask yourself, can mundane abilities ever compete with the additional. i don’t think any set of mundane abilities can ever compete with Once per day mass suggestion/teleport/wish. You could give the fighter +20 to all skill checks and it still wouldn’t matter. The only thing that might come close is retainers/henchmen and that’s not a very appealing solition for most.

The issue is that relying on the currently powered high level wizard leaves the fighter impossibly behind due to restrictions on mundaneness.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The point I am making is that you’ll never get the fighter right if you believe he’s balanced with a wizard as is right now. Whether you decide to nerf the wizard or take the fighter up you need to understand the point it becomes unbalanced.

Then you have to ask yourself, can mundane abilities ever compete with the additional. i don’t think any set of mundane abilities can ever compete with Once per day mass suggestion/teleport/wish. You could give the fighter +20 to all skill checks and it still wouldn’t matter. The only thing that might come close is retainers/henchmen and that’s not a very appealing solition for most.

The issue is that relying on the currently powered high level wizard leaves the fighter impossibly behind due to restrictions on mundaneness.

That's why mundane should be capped at 10. There's just no where else to go from there that doesn't delve into the supernatural. After 10, they can prestige class into other stuff, and that other stuff will certainly have a magical component.

 

[FrogReaver]

That's why mundane should be capped at 10. There's just no where else to go from there that doesn't delve into the supernatural. After 10, they can prestige class into other stuff, and that other stuff will certainly have a magical component.

I think that’s a worse way of handling it. It works. So does my proposal. They both have drawbacks.

 

[Minigiant]

There are a lot of things you could add to the fighter without going supernatural.

The fighter is already supernatural at high levels.
The issue is how blatant or over the top it is.

The Reaper, Lord, and Mastermind are only the lower end.

The Anime, Christmas, and Magic Fighters are on the high end.

The question is acceptance of how "the fighter beats the dragon". Many describe what they don't want. Few describe their preference of how the fighter kills a dragon.

One powerful strike after blocking the dragon's claw?
Many sharp strikes before the dragon tears them apart?
A volley of arrows by their squires and followers?
A dramatic brawl after being buffed by flight and strength magic?
A few power attacks after deflecting the breath weapon with your weapon?
Master Zeigfried's Falling Manticore Strike?
Dragon slayer sword and ring of flight?

 

[Charlaquin]

20/20

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

restricts magic-users more than they already are

restrict? RESTRICT!?!?!

Joking aside, I dont see how casters are restricted. Because they cant use weapons and armors? Their spells can bring them nearly on par with all other classes. Because they must spend a resources? That resource comes back after a good night! You cant be ever described as ''restricted'' when you can bend reality one time a day!

But I agree with you that nerfing other classes to make the mundanes look good is not that great as a design idea

 

[billd91]

That's why mundane should be capped at 10. There's just no where else to go from there that doesn't delve into the supernatural. After 10, they can prestige class into other stuff, and that other stuff will certainly have a magical component.

Supernatural, maybe - but not necessarily magical in the sense that spells are magical. There's nothing saying that a fighter couldn't have things like:

Aura of Command - that maybe forces enemies to hesitate/lose actions/comply with the fighter's demands
Network of Followers - that maybe enables a fighter to tap, albeit indirectly, some of the same narrative aspects that can change how they adventure that wizards normally get
Herculean feats - options, maybe based on a short/long rest, that allow them to grossly exceed what a skill or ability check can normally achieve
Epic Destiny - the power to "rewrite" certain situations and scenes since, after all, they are warriors destined to do great things

 

[Lord Mhoram]

One thing mechanically - and while it isn't "sexy" it could easily be part of the idea - and going back to early days; the fighters saves were the best in the game, he could shrug off stuff that most others couldn't. Putting some of that could go a long way towards the idea of the "fighter can take it all" feel.

 

[NotAYakk]

The fighter is already supernatural at high levels.

Superhuman maybe.

But even level 20 5e fighters are tough and deadly like an action movie star, not like an anime fighter. Heck, many/most action movie stars outpace them, even not going to Wuxia. A level 20 fighter/rogue/barbarian might outpace action movie stars?

 

[Minigiant]

Superhuman maybe.

But even level 20 5e fighters are tough and deadly like an action movie star, not like an anime fighter.

Superhuman is just low level supernatural.

Attacking 4 times in the time a normal trained fighter can attack once with ANY weapon is supernatural.