Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[Garthanos]

2. Most of the good suggestions to make high level fighters better result in diminishing other classes (e.g. granting expertise).

I disagree that this is at all bad.
I think philosophically all non-casters should excel in skills if a caster is being dependent on spells for non combat capability and well that is what is mentioned usually when we talk about out of combat ability being better by casters they are no longer really dependent on skill, ie why would he in theory develop the skill?. A fighter could have auto proficiency in Athletics or even Expertise a wizard might require Arcana diminishing choice. And yes a rogue might do the same with Stealth (like the fighter not the Wizard).

 

[Garthanos]

Which again leads to the issue with Fighters--too much given to other classes.

nods take it back is perhaps a bit bold LOL

But one can have class overlap for designing a character concept

In 4e I might build a berserkerish fighter as Battlerager Fighter a Blackguard Paladin a Barbarian or even by reflavoring some racial types like Shifters.

(and in 5e some is there too)

 

[Stalker0]

I’ll reshout out the previous idea for flexible feats for the fighter, which offers him at least some solid flexibility in the face of magic. Also allows for some niche nigh level feats to be made to add to his list of abilities as needed.

So if we look at our modern Marvel culture, Hawkeye is a high level fighter. I don’t think he’s 20th level, but he’s technically with his “party” dealing with world and even universe ending threats...so he’s dealing with the stakes expected of a high level fighter.

Hes considered “mundane”, but realistically does have a power...he never ever misses. That’s a pretty darn useful combat ability, so how about.

Sure Strike

When a 10th level fighter swings his sword or knocks an arrow, it carries the assuredness of death.

once per round, the fighter may declare a missed attack a hit.

At 20th level, the fighter has left behind the frailties of lesser warriors. He may apply this ability to all attacks.


it’s still mundane, technically something an extraordinary amount of die luck could replicate...but my god is that it cool and powerful

 

[Asisreo]

So, what do I expect Fighters at high levels to excel at? FIGHTING. Throw in commanding, tactics, and such. Think of Achilles with his Myrmidons warriors. By tier 3 and definitely into tier 4, perhaps heroic feats (but many such things fit better with barbarians or other classes). Which again leads to the issue

I don't necessarily think miniomancy is the solution.

But I like the tactics angle. You know what I think would be cool? If the fighter got a DC check equal to maybe the creature's intelligence score or maybe just a contest. On a success, the player gets some form of information about the target's next move. Maybe their next action or next position. They can then use that information to adjust.

 

[Garthanos]

This is why I was considering the Heroic Surge option granting the ability to do more on a skill check. Not just "get a higher number", but more getting a more powerful effect. Like being able to carry several companions when jumping/climbing/swimming on an athletics check. Or an insight check revealing what someone's first action would be if combat started.

Is there UA for the fighter doing something ike that with CS dice? I would like using HD as a CS die to that mix (there is a heroic surge)

 

[Amhain]

But, to be fair to the point (which was get rid of fighters because rogues, paladins, rangers and barbarians cover all the bases) Rogues, Paladins, Rangers and Bararians also can't compete with those spells in any meaningful way.

I mean, off the battlefield the most impressive thing a Paladin can do is summon a flying horse and raise the dead. Two things that the casters have been able to do for nearly 10 levels.

And both things more impressive than what a rogue or Barbarian can accomplish.

This is a valid observation, they're nowhere near as impressive as magic. But at least they have things they do out of combat. They either fight and do this other thing (Paladins, Rangers in theory), or do the other thing and are handy in a fight (Rogues).

Barbarians and Fighters may as well be the rest of the party's collective animal companion for all they get to do outside of combat from a mechanical perspective other than their Skills. And they have nothing to enhance those, from a mechanical perspective, because only Rogues and Bards get expertise.

Why can a full caster get Expertise, but none of the other Martials can be allowed to have that sweet, sweet double proficiency?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I actually agree with you. I think there's could be something there that could be wortwhile addition, but I have absolutely no idea what.

The old Feat for Skills UA had some things like this, where you could use your skills to generate mechanical effects. Maybe it could be one way of doing while giving an edge to the mundanes, since fighters and rogue are generally a little more SAD and have more feat.

I'm thinking that at high levels, the martial classes might get a bunch of slots to pick from a list of feat-like abilities to customise/represent prestige class-like progression. Fighter has a different list to Rogue to pick from, but some abilities are on both lists.

I don't necessarily think miniomancy is the solution.

But I like the tactics angle. You know what I think would be cool? If the fighter got a DC check equal to maybe the creature's intelligence score or maybe just a contest. On a success, the player gets some form of information about the target's next move. Maybe their next action or next position. They can then use that information to adjust.

Yep. I mentioned something like this as a non-combat ability that would reveal the capabilities and disposition of a creature by telling the fighter what its first action would be if combat should break out. Allowing it to be used in combat to reveal the creature's intended next action would be a possibility.

Is there UA for the fighter doing something ike that with CS dice? I would like using HD as a CS die to that mix (there is a heroic surge)

That just adds a superiority die to the result of the skill check. I'm suggesting the heroic surge dramatically improve what a skill check can achieve.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Barbarians

Well, at least barbarians have the whole advantage on STR checks while raging and some archetypes have out-of-combat rituals or features (the totemist one at least).

I think one good thing A5E could do is remove the ''Must attack'' part of keeping rage active and include instead a list of actions that can maintain rage (attacking, making a STR check, getting hit, make a Wis save etc) so that rage can be use out-of-combat a little. A

And at higher level you could add extra rider to the rage feature to include a jump bonus, or a climb speed or even the ''siege weapon'' tag on attack rolls.

 

[Garthanos]

That just adds a superiority die to the result of the skill check. I'm suggesting the heroic surge dramatically improve what a skill check can achieve.

In context with someone saying if normal skills allowed a bigger result for better rolls though if the better roll was not bound by a crit but were a reflection of high numbers then maybe. And what if that surge gave you advantage on the check (more crit chance that way too)

Explicitly better results available on skill and accessible via such does sound spot on.

 

[Minigiant]

Too much of what a generic class ("Fighter") could do has been doled out to other classes.

Actually I think it's the opposite.

I think the D&D community is kind of narrow-minded and can only think of or agree on togive a fighter. So we end up with the same ideas over and over and trying to get fighter's other classes' feature instead of creatiing new ones. Because creating new features put the duty of accepting the consequences on us.

I don't know why mythic fighters can't replace some ability checks or saving throws with attack rolls or AC.
I don't know why you can say "My fighter is a demigod or god's chosen" so he gets an epic boon (from a list) at level 7 and 15.
I don't know why anime fighters can't get flash steps and air slashes.