What is wrong (and right) in the RPG Industry?

[Mouseferatu]

I agree that there's not enough done to get new gamers into the fold, but I am not sure that "kids" are the appropriate target, depending on how you define the term. I think the usual age of entry into the hobby is early-teens to early-20s. A cartoon aimed at 10-year-olds will probably make the 13-year-old market think the whole idea is dorky, which is probably not the desired result. Good adventure movies based on the property would perhaps be a better idea. If the next Indiana Jones operates in Eberron, how could they possibly resist?

Well, during its supposed heyday in 80s, the recommended starting age for Basic D&D was 10.

This, however, is most definitely not the 80s. Still, though, I think 10 should be the appropriate starting age. I don't agree with everything Ryan said, but I agree that other options are blocking acquisition channels, so to speak. D&D needs to capture potential gamers before they're too swept up in CCG and MMORPGs. The earlier, frankly, the better.

Now, I'd agree that marketing efforts need to be spent on the teens and lower 20s brackets as well. But I think it'd be dangerous to ignore the younger market in favor of hitting those exclusively.

 

[MerricB]

The lack of support for thier own products. WotC is the biggest culprit in this. Quick, name all the d20 Modern Urban Arcana support products! Name the last 4 d20 Future modules that WotC put out! What's the current d20 Modern default setting?

If more than three people played d20 Modern Urban Arcana, I'd find this to be a problem.

Wizards support D&D massively. Between the RPGA, Wizards and Paizo, we also get a lot of love for Wizards D&D supplements.

Wizards support d20 Modern to a certain extent.

There needs to be an introductory level version of D&D. Not just a doorway basic set, but a simple and easy to play game that people can pick up when they're 8 and keep playing when they're 19.

Mouse, there seems to be some movement on this front - but likely not enough.

Introductory products are currently at:
* D&D Basic Game
* D&D Miniatures Starter Set
* D&D for Dummies

Intermediate products are:
* Dungeon Mastering for Dummies (I guess)
* D&D Player's Kit
* D&D Miniatures boosters

Advanced products are
* D&D Core rules

Expert products are
* D&D supplements & everything else.

I do agree that the jump between the D&D Basic Game and regular D&D is too much, but I want to see what the Player's Kit brings (softcover PHB + extra book to handle transition?)

Cheers!

 

[Mouseferatu]

Mouse, there seems to be some movement on this front - but likely not enough.

Introductory products are currently at:
* D&D Basic Game
* D&D Miniatures Starter Set
* D&D for Dummies

Intermediate products are:
* Dungeon Mastering for Dummies (I guess)
* D&D Player's Kit
* D&D Miniatures boosters

Advanced products are
* D&D Core rules

Expert products are
* D&D supplements & everything else.

I'd postulate--though of course, I have no research to back this up--that none of those are reaching the essential markets, at least not to the extent they must to accomplish what we're talking about accomplishing.

The Basic set isn't a complete game in and of itself. It's not widely marketed for kids, or available in toy stores, or advertised on TV, or supported by a popular cartoon or similar products. It doesn't matter merely what WotC releases; for purposes of this particular topic, marketing is the more valuable half of the equation.

The D&D for Dummies book is an interesting idea, but I don't see it bringing in a lot of the younger crowd.

No, I'll say it again--a complete, fully self-contained, playable game, that can be opened and run, aimed at kids or teens, and with a marketing machine operating behind it, is the only thing that might really turn things around. Everything else is, I feel, a stopgap measure at best.

(That said, I must give WotC credit. They're trying. It's just that it would take the resources of Hasbro, not just WotC, to really go all the way.)

 

[William Ronald]

It isn't. Unless you (in its general sense) want to see it grow. Having expectations about the future of the hobby brings with it some burden of the responsibility. And, please note, I am not discussing the market. I am discussing the hobby. Someone like diaglo, for instance, might be perfectly happy with a bunch of new gamers who only play original edition D&D, and that just fine, but if he had expectations that there should be more OD&D players in the world he should also expect to help bring about that result. If it is in someone's power to help bring about a result that they personally advocate but they do not take an active part in bringing about that result, I feel they need to chastise themself before they complain about the lack of effort from others, no matter if those others are individuals or organizations. Of course, people should feel free to complain but keep yourself at the top of the list if it is a place you rightfully hold.


As far as the actual market, I think if the hobby grows the market will naturally follow.

I have also run events at gamedays, and a table at the Worldwide D&D Gameday. I think that in large part the health of the hobby depends on us. Companies like WotC will market their products and may provide some level of promotion. However, I believe it is probably the current generation of players that will recruit the next generation of players. Can companies do more to support the growth of the hobby? Yes, I think they can. However, part of that will always be up to us. The RPGA, for example, depends heavily on its volunteers for its various campaigns.

If the number of RPG players grow, we should also see some attendant growth in the market. I would like to see more products that make it easy for new people to get into gaming. (Perhaps one thing that can be done is to make it as easy as possible for a group of players to transition from the D&D Basic Game to the core rules.) Possibly, GAMA or another group might be willing to work with current RPG players on recruiting people to the hobby. We should try to get a larger, positive public presence.

 

[MerricB]

I'd postulate--though of course, I have no research to back this up--that none of those are reaching the essential markets, at least not to the extent they must to accomplish what we're talking about accomplishing.

I'd probably agree.

The Basic set isn't a complete game in and of itself. It's not widely marketed for kids, or available in toy stores

It is available in Toys'R'Us, isn't it?

, or advertised on TV, or supported by a popular cartoon or similar products. It doesn't matter merely what WotC releases; for purposes of this particular topic, marketing is the more valuable half of the equation.

Alas for the sins of TSR! There's a bunch of rights that I bet that Wizards would just love to have.

The D&D for Dummies book is an interesting idea, but I don't see it bringing in a lot of the younger crowd.

Nor I.

(That said, I must give WotC credit. They're trying. It's just that it would take the resources of Hasbro, not just WotC, to really go all the way.)

Indeed. If only Wizards had thought of D&D Miniatures before MageKnight came out, and not pursued that abortion of a game, Chainmail. The landscape could be very different if that had been the case...

If only D&D Minis was promoted and packaged in the same manner as Heroscape...

Cheers!

 

[diaglo]

Running games at local gamedays, volunteering to run monthly WotC kits, and DMing when WotC runs a Worldwide Gameday are three of the ways I try to do my part to proliferate the hobby. I urge everyone interested helping capture a new generation of gamers to do likewise.

i do my part. i've introduced total n00bs to OD&D(1974) in the year 2005.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It is available in Toys'R'Us, isn't it?

Sorry, my fault for not being clearer. The "widely" in that sentence applies to the above clause, as well as the previous one. It's not widely available in toy stores (by which I mean not just specialty toy stores, but the various "Marts" that also have enormous toy sections). Some Toys 'R Us stores do indeed carry it, but again, it's not nearly enough.

 

[Rykion]

I agree that failing to draw in a new generation has been the big failing of the industry. A few years ago, I believe a Magic the Gathering D&D campaign setting would have done a lot to grow the RPG market. Hasbro still controls many brands that could be turned into RPG settings. The cartoons and toys already exist for these brands, so it would be a logical stepping stone into miniatures and RPGs. Table top RPGs are just too much of a niche market to get Hasbro's investment dollars.

 

[Vigilance]

The distribution chain. Savagely inefficient. I think it needs to die before the FLGS does. If it can be done.

Right there.

That's #1. RPG Companies dont operate on big margins and an even slightly more efficient system (as well as one that always paid) would be a huge improvement and actually allow publishers to spend more time writing books and less time trying to find ways to avoid the distribution chain altogether.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

2 points:

1) Like it or not (I don't) Wal-Mart is the WORLD's largest toy & game retailer, followed, as I recall, by Toys R Us... No game company can afford to ignore that market power. However, WM also has a tendency to exercise its muscle to affect content. Given the company's current policies and the content of many RPGs, its not a good mix.

Still, the introduction of gateway products in chains like Wal-Mart, stripped of the majority of content that could be considered "objectionable" could be a powerful marketing tools for the hobby. Note, this is a different concept than introducing simplified rules. The rules of the games need not be altered.

Example: Instead of producing a full Monster Manual, etc. for Wal-Mart, you'd introduce the D&D Adventure in a Box series, each containing a certain number of pregenerated PCs, a softcover book with the relevant rules, a softcover book with the adventure (one with enough variablity to encourage repeated play, like the old Metagaming Fantasy Trip adventures- "If A occurs, go to room 334, if B occurs go to 215"), stylized game pieces, die, and a board. Price it at...$35 (guestimation). Include advertising along the lines of:

"Liked this game? Check out the other Adventure in a Box products. Buy 4 Adventures in a box and send in the Dragon shaped proof of purchases and get the 3 D&D Core books for $40 and continue your adventures!"

The AiB games could be linked to particular settings. They could be expanded to other systems, like Modern or Urban Arcana. Other companies could use the idea to market theirs as well, assuming nobody gets proprietary about it. They could, yes, but this is really more of a form of advertising than a truly new product, and should be handled as such. In fact, if EVERYONE in the industry got on board with AiB's as a form of advertising, it could be the "high tide that bouys all ships."

2) Something I've observed in analyzing craft factories: Tour + Factory Store = increased revenues. This is the same model in the drug trade (legitimate & illegal) and in the music industry- give the potential customer a free taste, and you'll increase sales. My point?

In store-demos may devalue a particular copy of a game, but if the game has any merit, it will sell more copies than the loss of revenue from the opened copy. The problems for the stores, of course, include 1) lack of space to run games, 2) lack of personnel to run games, 3) the time involved training the personnel to play & run the games that could otherwise be spent working in the store 4) and choosing which games to play, since each choice represents not only a chance at increased revenues, but also the opportunity cost of not demoing a better game and the odds of running a bad game.

Several of these problems could be circumnavigated by mini-cons, with nominal admission fees to defray operating costs. Games could be chosen on the basis of reccomendation of satisfied customers...who could be tapped to run these games. The risks and opportunity costs of running bad games would be minimized over time by paying careful attention to which companies put out good products.