What Level is a Guardsman?

[Shades of Green]

Well, yeah, if the guards enjoyed all of those advantages and were not too badly outnumbered, that would very likely be true, though with their low attack bonuses and hit points it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

So, would level 2-3 suffice?

IMHO, the guards of a village or a small town should easily deal with goblinoid (or similar) harassment, and could probably repulse a typical "major" goblinoid attack with moderate losses, but they should need the help of the king's army and/or heroes (read: PCs) against repeated major goblinoid attacks, serious goblinoid harassment of outlaying farmsteads, and groups of higher-level monsters. They should probably also be able to keep a single ogre (or even troll, if they're prepared with a lot of fire gear/bombs/magic) at bay, but a gang of ogres or trolls would be able to extort a tribute from the typical village or small town, unless the king's men and/or the heroes show up and put the menace to the sword.

The king's men would include a few mounted knights (level 2-4 fighters for the very least, with full plate and at least masterwork weapons) and a large numbers of soldiers (level 1-4 warriors, with elite troops being level 1-3 fighters), as well as siege engines and a small number of clerics and wizards (though the siege engines, clerics and wizards are usually part of larger military forces, not small detachments and backwater garrisons). But the king's men couldn't be everywhere at once, especially if there is a war, revolt or border tension requiring the concentration of most of the army in one part of the kingdom.

Of course, the king (and the city watch of most large cities) would have a small handful of high-level (circa level 8-12) heroes for dealing with really serious threats, but these couldn't be everywhere at once, AND against real major threats (epic stuff, that is) you need REAL HEROES (read: high-level PCs).

 

[Delta]

How can they be considered 1st level? Otherwise, this leaves no room for the those guards from non-warfare entrenched cities to be statted.

It's easy. Non-veteran standard soldiers are defined (again in Classic D&D: OD&D, 1E, BXCMI) as 0-level. Unclassed in the d20 System (or War1), if you think that way.

 

[Allister]

It's easy. Non-veteran standard soldiers are defined (again in Classic D&D: OD&D, 1E, BXCMI) as 0-level. Unclassed in the d20 System (or War1), if you think that way.

No, I don't agree unfortunately.

This has always been a problem I have had with D&D fans. The squeezing at low level because your example leaves practically no room between the fat bellied inn-owner and the town guard.

Why is it wrong to have say Gondor's run of the mill soldiers be level 5-6? Why try and squeeze it down to level 1?

 

[S'mon]

Why is it wrong to have say Gondor's run of the mill soldiers be level 5-6? Why try and squeeze it down to level 1?

It depends a lot which iteration. In 1e an F5 gets 5 attacks per round vs foes of less than 1d8 hd, so you get wuxia guards killing several goblins per round. In 3e an F6 gets iterative attacks and the Leadership feat, he's entitled to his own cohort! In Mentzer BECMI D&D incorporating the stuff from the later sets going to 36th level, F5 troops wouldn't be unreasonable, you have to be F9 just to be a Knight and fight in a Tourney!

Personally, for 3e I put elite troops at around 5th level, but in 1e they'd be 2nd or at most 3rd, eg Sparteatei F3.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

This has always been a problem I have had with D&D fans. The squeezing at low level because your example leaves practically no room between the fat bellied inn-owner and the town guard.

I agree with what S'mon said. I run OD&D, which is open-ended on levels, but which has a level scale where around 10th level or so is "high level." I don't find much need for a detailed, granular system for tracking the stats and abilities of NPCs like a fat bellied inn-owner. The town guard or average soldier is about as low as it goes, as far as needing any details. So I don't *need* any room or detailed system at the low end. Normal men are normal men, and I assign them the stats and abilities they need, separate from the class rules that govern PCs.

If he gets involved in a combat, the fat bellied inn-owner is a normal man with a couple of hit points, and probably a penalty to attack. The blacksmith has 6 or 7 hit points, and attacks as a normal man, without penalty. The tailor who who taught himself to throw knives in the circus is a 0-level normal man with a couple of hit points, and he attacks as a normal man except when throwing knives, in which case he gets a +4. The seer is a normal man, and not a magic user, but he has the special ability to cast augury, like the spell. The merchant's barbarian bodyguards are 0-level mercenaries with a hit points at the high end of the range and a +2 to hit. Et cetera.

 

[Minigiant]

I always went for Fighter3 in 3.X for any guard of a major town of a noticable time of imployment, who has a story to tell. Anybody who survived the Riots of '78 or the Great Goblin Invasion had to get a couple o' levels. They lose a level if they lack any of the things a veteran guard who has seen "major" action would have.

But it depends more on the town. One city I made had normal town guards at level 15 because a single town guard was paid to stop invasions alone. There were only 20 of them and they took vacations all the time. And the gnolls and goblins attacked every other month.

 

[Snoweel]

No, I don't agree unfortunately.

This has always been a problem I have had with D&D fans. The squeezing at low level because your example leaves practically no room between the fat bellied inn-owner and the town guard.

Why is it wrong to have say Gondor's run of the mill soldiers be level 5-6? Why try and squeeze it down to level 1?

This is why 4e's 30-level spread is a GOOD THING.

Gondor's soldiers are definitely level 5 or higher.

 

[Allister]

It depends a lot which iteration. In 1e an F5 gets 5 attacks per round vs foes of less than 1d8 hd, so you get wuxia guards killing several goblins per round. In 3e an F6 gets iterative attacks and the Leadership feat, he's entitled to his own cohort! In Mentzer BECMI D&D incorporating the stuff from the later sets going to 36th level, F5 troops wouldn't be unreasonable, you have to be F9 just to be a Knight and fight in a Tourney!

Personally, for 3e I put elite troops at around 5th level, but in 1e they'd be 2nd or at most 3rd, eg Sparteatei F3.

But that doesn't work for the regular troops of Gondor.

Are you actually stating that those troops are basically only level 2? They fight more creatures on a monthly basis than most players fight in their first 5 levels...

 

[S'mon]

Personally, for 3e I put elite troops at around 5th level, but in 1e they'd be 2nd or at most 3rd, eg Sparteatei F3.

I guess the Sparteatei in the movie '300' might be higher though, since they look a lot like high level AD&D Fighters slaughtering droves of mooks every 1-minute round. Or they could be 4th+ level 3e Fighters with Great Cleave...

 

[S'mon]

But it depends more on the town. One city I made had normal town guards at level 15 because a single town guard was paid to stop invasions alone. There were only 20 of them and they took vacations all the time. And the gnolls and goblins attacked every other month.

A bit like Sanctuary's 'Hellhounds'? The 5 best soldiers in the Rankan Empire, deployed to police a city.