D&D 5E What Magic System do you prefer?

[Satyrn]

I voted for 5e standard, but I would like to have it with spells designed like Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, where each spell has a diminished version you can cast with a slot one lower than the spell's level and a heightened version cast with a slot one higher. 5e sort of does the heightened bit, but in a less interesting way I find.

 

[Ath'kethin]

But I have to admit, on a purely personal level, I kind of miss old-school Vancian. I liked being forced to find creative ways to use spells when I was out of obvious choices. Obviously, that relies on having a DM willing to accept out-of-the-box spell use, and it's not good for what most players want, so I'm not suggesting D&D go back to it. There's just a part of me that mourns the loss of that experience.

IN hand with that was the fact that in pre-WotC versions of D&D, the spells were more flexible in that there were fewer specifically defined terms in the game, so you could BE more creative with the spell application.

 

[Ath'kethin]

I'm in the 5e camp all the way.

Though I will say that the memorize and forget system never bothered me at all, probably because my first exposure to D&D was through the Dragonlance Chronicles, which provided a narrative logic to the way that magic worked. Since that was a way in which spells worked in my imagination already when I started playing the game a few years later, it seemed a natural enough way to function.

 

[MechaPilot]

As it relates to the actual casting of spells, I prefer if the caster makes some kind of check related to her skill at using magic to cast her spells and to determine how potent or effective the spells are.

Darn, completely forgot about those sorts of variants.

That's alright. There are so many possible options that you'd really have to run a thread like this just to get input as to the poll choices if you wanted a truly thorough poll.


One example of what I'm talking about would be the magic rules in the Cinematic Unisystem games (i.e. the Army of Darkness, BtVS, and Angel rpgs). You roll a skill check (1d10 + magic stat + magic skill) and the umber of success levels you get determines how powerful a spell you can cast (it works sort of like spell level, only the level is the minimum number of success levels you need to cast the spell), and how powerful the effects will be. In the case of damaging spells, the damage is usually success levels x magic stat x some variable determined by how powerful the spell is.

Another example would be the incantation rules for D20 Modern, which are sort of similar to 3e's Epic handbook's epic spell rules.

BESM d20 also had a system that used fatigue points and replaced spell levels with DCs to cast. If a character could take the appropriate amount of fatigue and could make the skill check, the character didn't need to be concerned with the spell's "spell level" anymore.

I also liked the skill checks to cast the 4e rituals, but I think they really could have expounded upon that with rare special components that could kick the skill check, multiple casters, and other things.

I also recall a 3e 3pp book that had feats that let you substitute things like costly components or additional casting time for the increase in spell slot level required by casting a spell with the effects of metamagic feats.

 

[Jester David]

I'm happy with the baseline. A variant that reduces cantrip use for a low magic campaign would be interesting, but uncertain how that would work.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

I'm all over the place on this one. It REALLY depends on the setting and magic's place in it. 5E is pretty good for middle-of-the-road and generic fantasy, but I'm not a fan of cantrips and the spell lists in general. But the 5E spell slot system is probably the best spell points that aren't spell points non-Vancian yet still Vancian system I've seen. And I've seen one.

I'd do a lot more invasive work on 5E to get it to where I like it, but it's not really necessary since I've already home-brewed other editions and I can just play those.

I'm mulling over doing a game with Hyper-Vancian. Wherein a high-level mage might memorize 5 or 10 spells. Maybe 1 per odd level. Lots of odd and esoteric spells that need to be unearthed in dusty tomes. Memorization times of 1 hour per spell or even 1 hour per spell level. Make magic such a hassle that only the curious, the insane or the desperate would make a study of it. I really like the sound of that.

 

[MechaPilot]

I'm happy with the baseline. A variant that reduces cantrip use for a low magic campaign would be interesting, but uncertain how that would work.

Probably by causing damaging spells to scale with level (probably using the same scaling levels that cantrips use). My understanding of the damaging cantrips is that they are the workhorse that helps the casters keep up with other classes when they aren't spending their slots. Removing those would, virtually by necessity, require scaling up the damage of the damaging spells that use spell slots to cast. I see a few simple ways to do this:
1) allow the caster to add to the number of spell damage dice rolled. Maybe add a number of dice equal to 1/2 the caster's proficiency modifier.
2) allow the caster to add a static bonus, either to the total damage or to each die roll.
3) give the caster advantage on spell damage dice rolled.

Alternately, you could impose an X cantrips per day rule then adjust the damage of the cantrips upward to reflect the reduced use.

 

[TwoSix]

Although I'm a fan of the 5E system, what I'd really love is something that could replicate D&D spells, but that was born of a system akin to Mage: The Ascension.

That would be amazing, although I would prefer Awakening's 10 spheres to Ascension's 9. I think they would fit better in a pure fantasy setting.

 

[Nytmare]

That would be amazing, although I would prefer Awakening's 10 spheres to Ascension's 9. I think they would fit better in a pure fantasy setting.

Ohmygod, thank you for pointing me at this. I didn't even know that version of Mage existed.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Make magic such a hassle that only the curious, the insane or the desperate would make a study of it. I really like the sound of that.

A concern here is PC mages, and if you allow them. There have been some similar discussions on the Primeval Thule forums about making magic more dangerous to use or more unwieldy, and a big concern is how much of a pain magic use can become before it just isn't worth the hassle.

What sounds good from a world-building perspective doesn't always play out well at the table/on the field.