D&D General What makes a TTRPG a "D&D Variant" to you?

[Morrus]

At this point I'm going to say you are talking exclusively about WotC-D&D. As a triviality Comeliness was a seventh stat in the original Unearthed Arcana.

More importantly d20 + modifier vs target number only became the core mechanic with 3.0. It was a mechanic before that - but there was also roll under your stat, roll over your savings throw, system shock and thief skill percentiles, and however initiative worked. When you seem to have excluded AD&D from your D&D variants I'd say you have cut far far too narrowly.

Carry on reading the post.

 

[Professor Murder]

PCs have "classes" that progress through "levels."

 

[Corinnguard]

When the TTRPG uses a particular D&D edition as its' chassis. They'll use the same game mechanics as that edition while introducing new material and/or fixes to problems that exist in that edition.

Pathfinder 1st edition- 3.0e/3.5e
Tales of the Valiant- 5e
Level Up: A5e- 5e

But more importantly, they look and feel like D&D to anyone who uses them in a role-playing session.

 

[payn]

Im probably more conservative with my variant take than most folks. My list would be a handful of OSR games and Pathfinder 1. Essentially, things trying to cleave as close to D&D editions past or current. For example, I wouldnt consider PF2 a variant any longer and things like Dungeon World are not either. Just becasue a game is fantasy based does not make it D&D. Just becasue an RPG is and RPG does not make it a D&D variant although it seems to, to a lot of people unfortunately.

 

[Corinnguard]

Another thing that would make a TTRPG into a variant of D&D is compatibility. If you can use something from an RPG such as ToV or A5e in 5e without seriously modifying it, then it's a variant.

 

[payn]

Another thing that would make a TTRPG into a variant of D&D is compatibility. If you can use something from an RPG such as ToV or A5e in 5e without seriously modifying it, then it's a variant.

While my initial reaction is not to call a D&D reskin a variant (like Carbon 2185 cyberpunk) it ultimately feels the same, so I can agree with that.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

For me, it's at least got to use the same core mechanic--d20 + modifier vs. target number. 6 attributes (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha). Levels and classes.

I mean, some of that can be tweaked, sure, but most of it has to be there. Almost certainly, the game is probably going to advertise itself as being powered by an edition of D&D, or of being a clone of D&D.

Basically this for me. I'd personally also add significant HP escalation, at least over the first nine or ten levels.

If the game doesn't have those things, it might be "D&D-like" or "D&D-inspired" or even "a D&D" (which is a broader and different term/usage imo) for me, but it's not a "D&D variant".

More importantly d20 + modifier vs target number only became the core mechanic with 3.0. It was a mechanic before that - but there was also roll under your stat, roll over your savings throw, system shock and thief skill percentiles, and however initiative worked. When you seem to have excluded AD&D from your D&D variants I'd say you have cut far far too narrowly.

I think we can take it as read that if it uses 1E/2E-style resolution mechanics that also counts. I don't believe the idea was to exclude those, I think you're reading a bit too literally.

But if it is using a fundamentally different resolution mechanic, especially for combat, big questions are raised as to whether it's a "D&D variant" or simply a fantasy game somewhat inspired by D&D.

Edge case for me is the X Without Number but I still think they're D&D because it really wants to lean into the OSR D&D outside of the skills.

Definitely agree re: edge case. I think I'd call it a D&D variant for two reasons myself:

1) It intentionally leans into D&D tropes even when it doesn't entirely make sense for what he's designing (I agree that Traveller or something might have been a better starting point for what he's actually doing). I think wanting to be a D&D variant is part of being one!

2) The games go out of their way to fix issues specific to D&D but usually in ways that are sort of workarounds rather than fundamentally different to D&D. The skill system is the biggest deviation, and I think he had to do it in order for stuff to actually work (because proficiencies were never quite a skill system).

 

[overgeeked]

For me it's three broad categories. D&D as in brand name official D&D. D&D variants as in those games which emulate or copy the mechanics of D&D. D&D-likes as in those games which emulate the feeling of D&D.

Being in the OSR/NSR space and navigating those conversations helped solidify this for me.

D&D variants are your OSR retroclones because they're all directly copying or only slightly updating mechanics of older D&D editions. Games like Old-School Essentials, Swords & Wizardry, etc. All your 5E offshoots are here as well, including Shadowdark as it's a 5E variant that also emulates the feel of old-school D&D.

D&D-likes are most of your NSR stuff, like Mork Borg, Pirate Borg, etc because it's feeling not mechanical emulation. D&D-like gets a bit weird because there are, broadly, two main versions of D&D. There's the old-school wargame, survival horror, fantasy Vietnam version and the more modern big damn fantasy (super)heroes version.

If we're not careful that just sprawls into practically all modern fantasy games, but D&D is often described as its own genre of fantasy and that helps narrow things down. So games like Draw Steel and Daggerheart are both D&D-likes because they're quite clearly big damn fantasy (super)heroes doing all the same things you'd be doing in modern D&D only with more modern design.

 

[Reynard]

including Shadowdark as it's a 5E variant that also emulates the feel of old-school D&D.

I would quibble and say it goes the other way: Shadowdark is an old school style game that employs some 5E-isms in order to streamline play in some areas.

If we're not careful that just sprawls into practically all modern fantasy games, but D&D is often described as its own genre of fantasy and that helps narrow things down. So games like Draw Steel and Daggerheart are both D&D-likes because they're quite clearly big damn fantasy (super)heroes doing all the same things you'd be doing in modern D&D only with more modern design.

I think D&Dness is often overstated, and I don't think it does much for discussion to lump every heroic fantasy game into "D&D-like." If Daggerheart is a D&D like, why not Fantasy AGe, or ROlemaster. I mean, Rolemaster began life as D&D supplements.

For me, we have to draw the line somewhere and the best place I can think to do that is the basic resolution mechanic. That doesn't mean all games that rely primarily on d20+mod v TN are D&D likes, but it helps separate out some subset.

 

[CleverNickName]

If it has:

• Elves of any kind (from Tolkien to Vulcans),
• Swords of any kind (from longswords to lightsabers),
• Magic of any kind (elemental, arcane, The Force, tech-babble, etc.),
• Dragons of any kind (classic, or kaiju, or dinosaurs, or other Big Terrible Monsters),
• EDIT: and uses polyhedric dice for RNG resolution,

...it's a "D&D clone" as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: the more I thought about it, the more important I think the polyhedric dice are to the D&D experience. There are plenty of diceless game systems out there (Dread being my favorite example), but they don't really feel like "a D&D clone" to me. I'm not sure what that says about me and my gaming perceptions/expectations, but here we are.