QueenofElflandsSon
Villager
Who were the best villains/opponents/rivals you've encountered playing D&D? What made them work for you?
D&D General What makes for good antagonists?
- Thread starter QueenofElflandsSon
- Start date
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Sadly, I haven't had too many long-runner games, so most of the best antagonists have been one-off villains we defeat and move on from. But I can talk about how I try to craft compelling antagonists, both short-term and long-term.
One path is what I'll call the "smug bastard" villain. The kind who is just so...so...punchable, y'know? Someone you get a perverse joy out of hating, and are filled with the most delicious schadenfreude when they get (proverbially or literally) kicked in the teeth. Developing this kind of antagonist doesn't take a ton of effort, but it does require you to at least preserve their veneer of calm, collected villainy for a while so that the players messing up the villain's plans feels sufficiently weighty. A villain that exploits social dynamics to protect themselves, taunts the PCs with how untouchable they are, gets irritatingly successful in ways the PCs can't just easily take away--that's how you make this person both memorable and oh-so-hateworthy.
Another memorable path is the "force of nature" villain. Someone, or perhaps something, that is so enormously, overwhelmingly powerful that they can't do anything about it--yet. This offers a way for the players to really see how their characters grow over time. A villain that was practically a walking natural disaster transitions from "JUST RUN" to "okay, manage the danger" to "we can hamper this" to "we can stop this." It helps to create defenses that the PCs can use to reliably protect themselves under certain circumstances, so they aren't constantly running scared, but instead focused on figuring out what they can DO about this horrendously powerful threat. It doesn't need to be personal in any way--it really can just be a natural disaster on legs!--but it can feel personal if the devastation it wreaks affects the things and people that the PCs care about.
A third path is the "True Believer." This can even be someone who starts out, perhaps even sincerely, helping the PCs, only for their real beliefs (not necessarily "allegiance" per se) to be revealed later. A good example there could be a well-heeled and benevolent professor, who secretly leads a Cthulhu cult after being indoctrinated on an archaeological dig or the like. Other True Believers can be people with royalist/imperialist sympathies who are otherwise friendly and helpful, business moguls who see themselves as philanthropists but who are actually the cause of great misery through their reckless business actions, or mad scientists who supply the party with useful things to start off with but go on to commit atrocities in the name of SCIENCE!!!
One final path is the "Noble Demon" villain, especially if they're of the "affable evil" persuasion where they're genuinely likeable, just...evil. In a sense, this is sort of the antithesis of the True Believer. It's someone who really could be your ally, if only they'd stop aiming to rule the world (or whatever)--their behavior is generally upstanding, they treat their employees well etc., etc., they're just trying to take over the world or unleash a plague and then sell the cure for huge bucks or whatever else. This villain can work really well if you're able to pull off the "James Bond Villain Dinner" type stuff, where the villain shows they're a gracious host, a good conversationalist, a surprisingly soft or relatable sort in pure socialization, where the moral quandaries of the rest of the world momentarily cease to be at the forefront.
In almost every case, building up a good antagonist comes down in part to how you portray them and what interactions they have with the party. Affable villains need chances to show that they "have standards", that they care about doing things the right way for the right reason (they just disagree about what reasons are "right"). Force of Nature villains need chances to show their awe-inspiring, overwhelming power in ways that don't just obliterate the PCs. True Believers are going to betray the party at some point; for that betrayal to land, the party has to value their connection before the treachery is revealed. Smug Bastards need to be impressively composed, so that the party wants to see that composure break. Etc.
There is no formula for doing this right. It's a matter of both your charisma as a performer, and giving the villains "rational" minds (for a given definition of "rational", since I included Cthulhu cultists in here!), goals that befit their skill/power level and interests, and concrete actions that further their villainy unless thwarted.
One path is what I'll call the "smug bastard" villain. The kind who is just so...so...punchable, y'know? Someone you get a perverse joy out of hating, and are filled with the most delicious schadenfreude when they get (proverbially or literally) kicked in the teeth. Developing this kind of antagonist doesn't take a ton of effort, but it does require you to at least preserve their veneer of calm, collected villainy for a while so that the players messing up the villain's plans feels sufficiently weighty. A villain that exploits social dynamics to protect themselves, taunts the PCs with how untouchable they are, gets irritatingly successful in ways the PCs can't just easily take away--that's how you make this person both memorable and oh-so-hateworthy.
Another memorable path is the "force of nature" villain. Someone, or perhaps something, that is so enormously, overwhelmingly powerful that they can't do anything about it--yet. This offers a way for the players to really see how their characters grow over time. A villain that was practically a walking natural disaster transitions from "JUST RUN" to "okay, manage the danger" to "we can hamper this" to "we can stop this." It helps to create defenses that the PCs can use to reliably protect themselves under certain circumstances, so they aren't constantly running scared, but instead focused on figuring out what they can DO about this horrendously powerful threat. It doesn't need to be personal in any way--it really can just be a natural disaster on legs!--but it can feel personal if the devastation it wreaks affects the things and people that the PCs care about.
A third path is the "True Believer." This can even be someone who starts out, perhaps even sincerely, helping the PCs, only for their real beliefs (not necessarily "allegiance" per se) to be revealed later. A good example there could be a well-heeled and benevolent professor, who secretly leads a Cthulhu cult after being indoctrinated on an archaeological dig or the like. Other True Believers can be people with royalist/imperialist sympathies who are otherwise friendly and helpful, business moguls who see themselves as philanthropists but who are actually the cause of great misery through their reckless business actions, or mad scientists who supply the party with useful things to start off with but go on to commit atrocities in the name of SCIENCE!!!
One final path is the "Noble Demon" villain, especially if they're of the "affable evil" persuasion where they're genuinely likeable, just...evil. In a sense, this is sort of the antithesis of the True Believer. It's someone who really could be your ally, if only they'd stop aiming to rule the world (or whatever)--their behavior is generally upstanding, they treat their employees well etc., etc., they're just trying to take over the world or unleash a plague and then sell the cure for huge bucks or whatever else. This villain can work really well if you're able to pull off the "James Bond Villain Dinner" type stuff, where the villain shows they're a gracious host, a good conversationalist, a surprisingly soft or relatable sort in pure socialization, where the moral quandaries of the rest of the world momentarily cease to be at the forefront.
In almost every case, building up a good antagonist comes down in part to how you portray them and what interactions they have with the party. Affable villains need chances to show that they "have standards", that they care about doing things the right way for the right reason (they just disagree about what reasons are "right"). Force of Nature villains need chances to show their awe-inspiring, overwhelming power in ways that don't just obliterate the PCs. True Believers are going to betray the party at some point; for that betrayal to land, the party has to value their connection before the treachery is revealed. Smug Bastards need to be impressively composed, so that the party wants to see that composure break. Etc.
There is no formula for doing this right. It's a matter of both your charisma as a performer, and giving the villains "rational" minds (for a given definition of "rational", since I included Cthulhu cultists in here!), goals that befit their skill/power level and interests, and concrete actions that further their villainy unless thwarted.
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
My opinion is is the best villains are the quasi-anti-villains, those with some positive traits, or with no-evil reasons. For example the classic dr.Doom from classic marvel comics believes himself to be the future savior, and then he has to controll everything to void world destroys itself. Magneto wants a better future for the mutants, but the chose the wrong way. The Technocracy from "Mage: the Ascension" sincerly believe thanks their efforts the humanity will can enjoy a better future.
Rembember the players usually don't know the background of the enemy when this appears the first time. The TTRPGs aren't like the movies, series or animes where thanks a flashback we know the past of the characters.
Rembember the players usually don't know the background of the enemy when this appears the first time. The TTRPGs aren't like the movies, series or animes where thanks a flashback we know the past of the characters.
aco175
Legend
I do not think anyone believes that they are the villain. They think they are doing the right thing like Thanos thought he would end wars by killing half of everything. He wanted to save people.
We had a bad guy we hated named Pompus Assinine. He was a smug noble we hated, but did things the people loved like building an orphanage and buy drinks every night at the bar. It turned out that the peoplle behind him were the terrible ones like in the movies and he was just a patsy.
We had a bad guy we hated named Pompus Assinine. He was a smug noble we hated, but did things the people loved like building an orphanage and buy drinks every night at the bar. It turned out that the peoplle behind him were the terrible ones like in the movies and he was just a patsy.
Bayushi_seikuro
Hero
The best/my favorite enemy I've faced was an ettin cultist.
He was hyper intelligent, and I believe one of his heads actually had class levels (this was 3.0). I believe it was based on something from Book of Vile Darkness (?) where a character had a tumor but the tumor was a sentient, spellcasting being, always tempting you to do wrong.
Anyway... every time we faced off against this ettin, he would show us up and retreat. And my reaction was always a case of GD-it. He was Moby Dick to my Ahab.
We finally trapped him in some badlands. No escape, got him dead to rights... until he spider-climbed his way away. We were outplayed again by a genius monster.
For years, I'd still refer to that creature in and out of other games. For years, my friend thought he had legitimately angered me with this NPC, but to be honest, I loved the challenge, and I loved being defeated logically and due to something I hadn't planned for. I finally had that discussion with him, like ten years after we'd fought that ettin - I loved it and I loved the frustration of the hunt.
In some ways, the Ettin makes me think of the story of Gygax and his golden statue that ran around the dungeon levels, never able to be stopped.
He was hyper intelligent, and I believe one of his heads actually had class levels (this was 3.0). I believe it was based on something from Book of Vile Darkness (?) where a character had a tumor but the tumor was a sentient, spellcasting being, always tempting you to do wrong.
Anyway... every time we faced off against this ettin, he would show us up and retreat. And my reaction was always a case of GD-it. He was Moby Dick to my Ahab.
We finally trapped him in some badlands. No escape, got him dead to rights... until he spider-climbed his way away. We were outplayed again by a genius monster.
For years, I'd still refer to that creature in and out of other games. For years, my friend thought he had legitimately angered me with this NPC, but to be honest, I loved the challenge, and I loved being defeated logically and due to something I hadn't planned for. I finally had that discussion with him, like ten years after we'd fought that ettin - I loved it and I loved the frustration of the hunt.
In some ways, the Ettin makes me think of the story of Gygax and his golden statue that ran around the dungeon levels, never able to be stopped.
The best villains are ones the players hate! It can be as simple as doing bad things to children/animals (which always riles people up), or it can be personal, depending on the level of evil your group is comfortable with. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be evil, but simple rivalry/antagonism spread out over the course of the campaign.
To get a long term villain, you have to have a reason why the PCs can't just kill them. The most obvious is to make the too powerful, but that has the downside of how the villain deals with the PCs without just killing them. The strongest way is to have political connections, where killing the villain means the end of the PCs too. Antagonists don't necessarily need a special reason to live, so long as they never directly attack the PCs; the law would be on the antagonists side.
To get a long term villain, you have to have a reason why the PCs can't just kill them. The most obvious is to make the too powerful, but that has the downside of how the villain deals with the PCs without just killing them. The strongest way is to have political connections, where killing the villain means the end of the PCs too. Antagonists don't necessarily need a special reason to live, so long as they never directly attack the PCs; the law would be on the antagonists side.
Bayushi_seikuro
Hero
A friend had run a Rolemaster campaign with factions - Law, Chaos, Good, and Evil. Each end of the axis had a champion, and what was making the universe start to fall apart was Evil had two people fighting to be its champion, Law had become utter stasis, and other existential messes.
He made agents of Chaos that were the party's equals and opposites - each NPC was designed to counter a specific PC. What is hilarious is that, through no conscious effort on our part, we'd end up facing off with an NPC designed for another PC, therefore we'd have an upper hand.
By the end of the campaign, we'd semi-allied with the Lord of Chaos because he was somehow the most stable and trustworthy faction heads.
Side note: the entity trying to usurp the power of Evil was the son of a former (PC) paladin who fell to Chaos, impregnated a succubus, and was hit with the Be Not spell, that removed him from ever existing in the universe. Yet his son was protected because of the power of his mother.
It was a wild campaign.
sevenbastard
Legend
90% of my games the villans are some well armed drifters who burn down the inn, bully the shop keepers, disrespect the authorities, and then rile up the orcs till they raid the village but by then these drifters have left for the next town.
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