What makes the classes unique?

[moticon]

Hi All,

I have been reading the boards daily, have pre-ordered my 4E books and I'm looking fwd to giving it a try.

I'd like to get some help/input on one lingering fear that I can't shake... IT seems to me that, in the name of balance, each class will have basically the same features under different names.

By this I mean that everyone's got an at-will damage ability, every PC has a tiny unique flavor to influence the battle field (mark, push, pull, move, etc), and every PC will have very similar skills and defense as all will rise at the same rank except perhaps a unique one for each class.

Because I keep getting this flavor, I am having trouble getting excited about any one class over any other...

Do others see this? If not, then what do you see that makes each class really interesting in a unique way?

thanks for input/insight on this...

 

[Rechan]

Everyone has a role. That's the thing that separates them up front.

A defender just feels different than a controller, because the defender can get hit a lot, he's in melee all the time, and he's hitting one or two guys at a time. Controllers are paper-thin, and can effect large areas or large amounts of people. Leaders influence their party members; healing, boosting (every one of the Cleric's At Wills give allies a boost to an ability, for instance). Strikers are all about dishing out a bucket of extra damage on one guy.

After that role, some classes have a little bit of mixing. Paladins are defenders, but have some leaderish abilities to heal, to give higher AC to their friends. Warlocks may have a few abilities that let them effect multiple people, like a controller.

The third thing that differentiates people is how your class does his thing.

Let's compare the Ranger, the Rogue, and the Warlock. All three are strikers, all three are about doing damage to dudes.

The rogue is primarily a melee guy. He has to get up close and personal with his enemies, but he has lots of mobility tricks that let him dance around the battlefield. To do his buckets of damage, he has to get Combat Advantage, which means either Flanking, getting Surprise, or some other circumstance (like getting on a table).

The ranger is either ranged (or two weapon fighting melee, but we haven't seen this). To get his bucket of damage, he can mark the closest guy. This emans either he starts shooting teh guy closest to him at the start of the fight, or he has to maneuver around the battlefield to find the target he wants (like the guy in the back) so he can nail him to the wall.

The Warlock, like the ranger, does his thing at range, and to do more damage, he has to peg the closest guy to him; forcing him to maneuver around just like the Ranger. However, his powers are different; he can do different types of damage (psychic, fire, etc); he can turn invisible (Eyebite), and likely do things like immobilize, and so on.

They are similar, but each has a different strategy to do what his thing is.

 

[EonEdge]

I completely agree with you. All the rules changes and conceptual differences in every other area xound pretty good to me, but the classes sound like all that makes them different is fluff.

I hope I'm wrong, because this looks like it could be my favorite incarnation of the game.

 

[Rechan]

Everyone has a role. That's the thing that separates them up front.

A defender just feels different than a controller, because the defender can get hit a lot, he's in melee all the time, and he's hitting one or two guys at a time. Controllers are paper-thin, and can effect large areas or large amounts of people. Leaders influence their party members; healing, boosting (every one of the Cleric's At Wills give allies a boost to an ability, for instance). Strikers are all about dishing out a bucket of extra damage on one guy.

After that role, some classes have a little bit of mixing. Paladins are defenders, but have some leaderish abilities to heal, to give higher AC to their friends. Warlocks may have a few abilities that let them effect multiple people, like a controller.

The third thing that differentiates people is how your class does his thing.

Let's compare the Ranger, the Rogue, and the Warlock. All three are strikers, all three are about doing damage to dudes.

The rogue is primarily a melee guy. He has to get up close and personal with his enemies, but he has lots of mobility tricks that let him dance around the battlefield. To do his buckets of damage, he has to get Combat Advantage, which means either Flanking, getting Surprise, or some other circumstance (like getting on a table).

The ranger is either ranged (or two weapon fighting melee, but we haven't seen this). To get his bucket of damage, he can mark the closest guy. This emans either he starts shooting teh guy closest to him at the start of the fight, or he has to maneuver around the battlefield to find the target he wants (like the guy in the back) so he can nail him to the wall.

The Warlock, like the ranger, does his thing at range, and to do more damage, he has to peg the closest guy to him; forcing him to maneuver around just like the Ranger. However, his powers are different; he can do different types of damage (psychic, fire, etc); he can turn invisible (Eyebite), and likely do things like immobilize, and so on.

They are similar, but each has a different strategy to do what his thing is.

Another example is the Warlord vs. the Cleric. Both are Leaders.

The Cleric is better at healing, and his attacks buff his friends.

The Warlord is better at battlefield tactics; he can give his friends free basic attacks, and his abilities let his party get free movement when it's not their turn.

Yes, everyone has at willls, damage abilities, and can move people around. The difference comes from what degree each role (and each class) can do the above. Strikers do better damage, have less opportunity to move people around, for instance.

 

[ZetaStriker]

Don't forget the Warlock's awesome 'upon cursed enemy's death' abilities. Dropping a minion to activate a short range teleport or levitation spell seems pretty unique, as far as I can tell.

EDIT: I will say that I think the Cleric and Paladin cross over a bit more than I like... one's high damage, high resilience, low buff, and the other is moderate damage, moderate resilience, high buff. They even share Channel Divinity, which I feel should have been Cleric-only.

 

[MindWanderer]

Having played in demos, I can allay your fears significantly. Just because evey class uses the same system to determine how often they can use their abilities, what they do with those abilities is very different.

Unified progressions are there so that the relationship between a skilled character and an unskilled character remains the same. In 3e, a level 20 fighter would have not only +20 BAB, but a Str of at least 26, a +5 weapon, and a few other bonuses like Weapon Focus: total attack bonus around 35, give or take. The level 20 wizard with a +10 BAB, a 10 Str, and a +5 weapon has only +15 to hit. When the fighter hits AC 37 on a roll of 2, the wizard needs a 20 to hit. That's an absurd difference, where AC becomes almost meaningless (the fighter nearly always hits, the wizard nearly always misses). In 4e, if the fighter needs a 9 to hit and the wizard needs a 14 at 1st level, then at 30th level that will be more or less the same (the fighter will outpace the wizard a little, but then the wizard won't be using melee attacks very often).

The roles make a big difference. Defenders get out in front and hold the line. Strikers hit hard but need to stay out of trouble. Leaders keep everyone else from dying. Wizards (admittedly less so at 1st level) give the party a situational advantage, preventing or discouraging the enemies from attacking en masse. Furthermore, each class has a different way of doing these things, although the fighter and paladin are more similar than, say, the cleric and warlord.

 

[Blackbrrd]

They play totally different.

I ran three play-tests with pre-gen characters and none of the characters behaved the same. Except maybe the warlock and ranger. But I didn't like them.

 

[EonEdge]

all that comes as a relief, though i'll need to try it out myself before i can get it(i am from MO after all), but none the less I am completely looking forward to the new addition.

 

[Warbringer]

Dropping a minion to activate a short range teleport or levitation spell seems pretty unique, as far as I can tell.

Ah, 4e's blind-kobold; and yes I know it's a feature

 

[moticon]

appreciate the replies... This does help alleviate concerns... I'm still interested in other input from other people here... Partially because I'm trying to think about what class I'll be interested in playing as a PC..

in my group (about 12 players who split tables on game day) we are planning on playing an 'auto-level' campaign for a few months to get a feel for how the classes advance before we start a more traditional and longer campaign cycle... part of the reason for this post is that I have no particular draw to any class yet... I really enjoyed my Barbarian/fighter, and a wizard/loremaster I built up over the last few years in Greyhawk... not sure yet what will play how in 4E..