D&D (2024) What new jargon do you want to replace "Race"?

What new jargon do you want to replace "Race"?

  • Species

    Votes: 59 33.1%
  • Type

    Votes: 10 5.6%
  • Form

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Lifeform

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Biology

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Taxonomy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Taxon

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Genus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Geneology

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Family

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Parentage

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Ancestry

    Votes: 99 55.6%
  • Bloodline

    Votes: 13 7.3%
  • Line

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Lineage

    Votes: 49 27.5%
  • Pedigree

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Folk

    Votes: 34 19.1%
  • Kindred

    Votes: 18 10.1%
  • Kind

    Votes: 16 9.0%
  • Kin

    Votes: 36 20.2%
  • Kinfolk

    Votes: 9 5.1%
  • Filiation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Extraction

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Descent

    Votes: 5 2.8%
  • Origin

    Votes: 36 20.2%
  • Heredity

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Heritage

    Votes: 47 26.4%
  • People

    Votes: 11 6.2%
  • Nature

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Birth

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Vaalingrade

Legend
That's a stretch. You are passing judgements on people involved in older versions of the game with no real evidence for your claim. There may well be parts that, with the modern eye, now appear to be racist but that doesn't mean they were intended to be such. Times were different and while casual racism may well have existed in the past accusing people of being deliberately racist is a step too far and wrong, both because you don't know what was going on in their heads and because such accusations are ethically dubious.
It did and still does in the present.

And being casually racist is being deliberately racist. We don't have to be 'in their heads' to understand how this works.

There is no excuse for trying to justify racism past, present or future.
 

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Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
I know, but in this context, race means "ethnicity" (not "species"). The website makes some effort to find a dictionary to make it clear that the Black American "race" is a people.

In the context of D&D, this meaning of race means that the Elf species includes many races: Uda, Aeven, Loren, Grey, Faerie, High, Wood, Grugach, etcetera.
Sure, those could all be called races or peoples or ethnicities. Species is a little more difficult, but you could say each one of those is a species of elf. The point is that these terms can operate on multiple levels. Black Americans are a people, but they are also members of the American people and the people of the pan-African diaspora and the people of Earth. Those are all peoples.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
Sure, those could all be called races or peoples or ethnicities. Species is a little more difficult, but you could say each one of those is a species of elf. The point is that these terms can operate on multiple levels. Black Americans are a people, but they are also members of the American people and the people of the pan-African diaspora and the people of Earth. Those are all peoples.
Again your usage confuses definitions.

There is a difference between "cat people"/"Earth people" versus "a people".

"Pan-African diaspora" is a problematic phrase, because not all of the African diasporas are Pan-African.

It comes across as if an effort to make the word "people" mean the exact same thing as "race", including all of the definitions of "race". The word "race" is a problem. But it is what the word means and the ways it gets used that is the problem. So a new word with the same meanings is the same problem.
 
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Yaarel

He Mage
@Bedrockgames

The 5e (2014) Players Handbook has a similar Random Height and Weight table on page 121. The Handbook says "you can decide" what the height and weight of your character are. But "if you want", you can roll them randomly.

The player decides. The table is optional.

The more recent book, Mordenkainen Presents Monsters of the Multiverse, continues the Players Handbook approach. It says on page 6 for the playable races:

"Player characters, regardless of race, typically fall into the same ranges of height and weight that humans have in our [reallife] world. If you'd like to determine your character's height and weight randomly, consult the Random Height and Weight table in the Players Handbook and choose the row in the table that best represents the build you imagine for your character."

For example, the player can decide what the measurements of an Eladrin should be, and if preferring a random result, can do so accordingly.

The player decides what is appropriate for the character concept.



I am fully on board with this approach. For a number of reasons.

The main reason for this game-rules approach is to avoid reallife body shaming, and to embrace the diversity of human physiques. By extension, the Elf is not necessarily a small anorexic supermodel "elf babe".

Heh, well yeah, the Elf is definitely a supermodel, but might be a plus-size supermodel, maybe tall, maybe muscular, or so on. Whatever makes sense for the players concept.

In Norse and Scottish cultures, the Elf is a personification of beauty. It is part of the archetype that makes an Elf an Elf. And. There are many ways to be beautiful. Any visualization of beauty is appropriate for this archetype. I appreciate how 5e gives the player the final say with regard to what the player is comfortable with.



On a separate note relating to Height and Weight, the Human can be Small or Medium, but should also mention the possibility of Large.

A (very) rough rule of thumb for humanlike bipeds is:

Small ≈ 2 to 4 feet
Medium ≈ 4 to 8 feet
Large ≈ 8 to 16 feet
Huge ≈ 16 to 32 feet

The Size category doubles each time. However, these approximations dont account for being thinner or broader. So the boundary between each category is vague and overlapping. Moreover, in the gaming rules, Size actually means how much space a creature "occupies" − not the body itself. It includes the bodyspace around someone. There is room to fit any bodytype diversity.



In the OneD&D playtest, each Species continues to refer to a specific range of heights. For example, the Human Species is Size "Medium (about 4-7 feet tall) or Small (about 2 to 4 feet tall)".

The thing is, there are reallife humans who are over 9 feet, almost 10 feet tall. Tall people are humans too! I feel strongly, the Human Species also needs to mention the possibility of "Large (about 8-9 feet tall)". So the full range of Human heights is about 2-9, whence averaging roughly about 5½, but allowing for Small and Large outliers.

The fact reallife humans can be Small, Medium, and Large, gives examples for a vast diversity of bodytypes, heights and weights, to visualize what the D&D Nonhuman characters can look like as well.



What matters most is, the player decides whatever measurements feel comfortable and sensible to the player.
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
Again your usage confuses definitions.
No, I'm only talking about definition 2 from Google's English dictionary:
the men, women, and children of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group.​

There is a difference between "cat people"/"Earth people" versus "a people".
Why? What's the difference?

"Pan-African diaspora" is a problematic phrase, because not all of the African diasporas are Pan-African.
Apologies, I should have just said "African diaspora", although what I really meant to say was the global community of people of African descent, which includes people who live in Africa as well as other parts of the world.

But do what you want.
Okay, thanks.
 


codo

Hero
It did and still does in the present.

And being casually racist is being deliberately racist. We don't have to be 'in their heads' to understand how this works.

There is no excuse for trying to justify racism past, present or future.
Exactly. Casual racisms is just racism so ingrained you do it instinctively without thinking about it. The only way you can claim that the orcs of Thar was not deliberately indented to be racist, is that that author like lots of Americans of his generation didn't actually consider Indians to be real human being. For generations American society turned Indians into a cartoon caricature. They where turning into vicious savages for movie stars to fight, and the enemy children pretended to kill with their friends while playing "cowboys and Indians".
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Exactly. Casual racisms is just racism so ingrained you do it instinctively without thinking about it. The only way you can claim that the orcs of Thar was not deliberately indented to be racist, is that that author like lots of Americans of his generation didn't actually consider Indians to be real human being. For generations American society turned Indians into a cartoon caricature. They where turning into vicious savages for movie stars to fight, and the enemy children pretended to kill with their friends while playing "cowboys and Indians".
Orcs of Thar was made in the '80s. What I think you're saying is it's author(s) didn't see Native Americans as real human beings, which is essentially the same as saying they were terrible people. Is that what you're saying here? Because that's a very strong accusation against people I'm guessing you've never met.
 

codo

Hero
Orcs of Thar was made in the '80s. What I think you're saying is it's author(s) didn't see Native Americans as real human beings, which is essentially the same as saying they were terrible people. Is that what you're saying here? Because that's a very strong accusation against people I'm guessing you've never met.
I don't think it is controversial saying that vast swathes of American culture and society has historically demeaned, belittled, mocked and oppressed Indians. For literally decades the most popular film and television genre in the country was based on celebrating murdering Indians, while you are stealing their land. The definitive children's game of this era is literally "cowboys and Indians". Children literally grew up pretending to kill Indians. Most Americans didn't consider Indians human beings. They put them in the same fictional category as Horn Helmeted Vikings, Swashbuckling Pirates, and Knights and Dragons. The majority of the country never thought of them as a real living people, who are still dealing with hundreds of years of oppression by our country.

Is Bruce Heard (the Author of Orcs of Thar) a terrible person? I don't know I have never met him or know anything about him. What I do know is that he wrote a terrible book, expressing terrible and horrifyingly racist views. I am not going to stop criticize a book for its racist content, just because I might hurt the feelings of the author.

Everyone has good and bad parts to their personality. Just because I think someone did something terrible, I don't necessarily think they are a irredeemably terrible person. On the other hand, just because someone might not be a horrible person, that is not going to stop me from criticizing them when when I think they are doing something hurtful and terrible.

 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Ah, the classic 'pointing out racism in a project is the exact same as calling individuals racist' gambit. Almost as as premier these days as 'orcs aren't real' and 'you're looking to be offended' in the Apologia Collection.
 

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