What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?
- Thread starter Hardhead
- Start date
Sir Whiskers
First Post
Many of my preferences have already been mentioned - here are a few that haven't:
1. List BAB for all monsters. I use the optional rule for contested concentration checks and since it's a pain to figure the BAB manually, we've gone to a Reflex save. I think BAB works better, though - I just don't want to figure it out every time myself.
2. Get rid of the current familiar list. Create a list of basic bonuses given by familiars (bonus stat, bonus save, special ability) then allow a character to choose any normal, weak animal as a familiar. The particular special ability can be rolled randomly, or the GM can choose one to fit the character's conception. I'm tired of players choosing toads to get the Con boost, and so on.
3. Simplify magic item creation, by reducing the number of feats. At most, Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Create Minor Item (<5,000 gp value), Create Moderate Item (<20,000 gp item), Create Major Item (no gp limit - no artifacts). Anything not a scroll, potion, weapon, or armor would fall under the Create Item feats.
4. Eliminate the limited weapon lists for classes like the druid - give them simple weapon proficiency. If flavor demands it, add a weapon or two to a particular class. This would simplify things, as the player then only has to know if a weapon is simple, martial, or exotic to know if his character can use it.
5. Combine all the 2nd-level stat buffing spells into one spell. Allow the caster to choose what stat when casting it. Allow only one such buff spell (regardless of the stat buffed) to work on the same target at the same time.
6. I hate the limited and (somewhat) unbalanced lists for summoning. Change Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally to work based on the CR of the creature summoned. Example, SM I can summon any creature of less than CR 1. Include some (relatively) simple mechanism for limiting the creatures any one caster can summon.
7. Officially change bows and ammunition, so that the bow only adds to the attack roll, and ammunition only adds to damage (and penetrates DR). This neatly stops the infamous Greater Magic Weapon stacking problem.
1. List BAB for all monsters. I use the optional rule for contested concentration checks and since it's a pain to figure the BAB manually, we've gone to a Reflex save. I think BAB works better, though - I just don't want to figure it out every time myself.
2. Get rid of the current familiar list. Create a list of basic bonuses given by familiars (bonus stat, bonus save, special ability) then allow a character to choose any normal, weak animal as a familiar. The particular special ability can be rolled randomly, or the GM can choose one to fit the character's conception. I'm tired of players choosing toads to get the Con boost, and so on.
3. Simplify magic item creation, by reducing the number of feats. At most, Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Create Minor Item (<5,000 gp value), Create Moderate Item (<20,000 gp item), Create Major Item (no gp limit - no artifacts). Anything not a scroll, potion, weapon, or armor would fall under the Create Item feats.
4. Eliminate the limited weapon lists for classes like the druid - give them simple weapon proficiency. If flavor demands it, add a weapon or two to a particular class. This would simplify things, as the player then only has to know if a weapon is simple, martial, or exotic to know if his character can use it.
5. Combine all the 2nd-level stat buffing spells into one spell. Allow the caster to choose what stat when casting it. Allow only one such buff spell (regardless of the stat buffed) to work on the same target at the same time.
6. I hate the limited and (somewhat) unbalanced lists for summoning. Change Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally to work based on the CR of the creature summoned. Example, SM I can summon any creature of less than CR 1. Include some (relatively) simple mechanism for limiting the creatures any one caster can summon.
7. Officially change bows and ammunition, so that the bow only adds to the attack roll, and ammunition only adds to damage (and penetrates DR). This neatly stops the infamous Greater Magic Weapon stacking problem.
David Argall
First Post
a couple of things
Common - granted, quite unreal, but almost absolutely essential. Having half the party who must roleplay not knowing what is going on is a drag. Also it means you have to adventure only in one area, or give the PCs a long list of languages known, which is much the same thing as common.
Counterspelling does look to need considerable revision. I don't have much idea how to make it useful without being too useful.
They should find some way to make odd numbers in stats more useful. It's too automatic to make all your stats even.
A stat raise of 1/4 levels is not large enough to be worth the bother. At 24th level all your stats are up by 1. hardly enough to notice. I'd suggest 1/level, which would make sure you have a 20th level who is more impressive than a 1st. I assume they fear having 35+ St, but if we say the same stat can't be raised 2 levels in a row, we can keep that reasonably balanced.
Common - granted, quite unreal, but almost absolutely essential. Having half the party who must roleplay not knowing what is going on is a drag. Also it means you have to adventure only in one area, or give the PCs a long list of languages known, which is much the same thing as common.
Counterspelling does look to need considerable revision. I don't have much idea how to make it useful without being too useful.
They should find some way to make odd numbers in stats more useful. It's too automatic to make all your stats even.
A stat raise of 1/4 levels is not large enough to be worth the bother. At 24th level all your stats are up by 1. hardly enough to notice. I'd suggest 1/level, which would make sure you have a 20th level who is more impressive than a 1st. I assume they fear having 35+ St, but if we say the same stat can't be raised 2 levels in a row, we can keep that reasonably balanced.
Mouseferatu
Hero
I think this has gotten well beyond the parameters of a "tweak" and deep into a 4th edition wish list. 
Here's one, kind of obscure.
According to the rules, it's better to use a masterwork bow and a masterwork arrow than to use a +1 magic bow and a masterwork arrow.
Why? Magic bonuses for weapons and ammunition stack, and masterwork bonuses for weapons and ammunition stack, but a masterwork bonus on ammo does not stack with a magic weapon.
Also, everywhere in the rules, it says magic ranged weapons apply their magic to the ammo. That's why a +2 thundering longbow grants the +2 damage--and the thundering on a crit--to the arrow.
Yet only the magic of the ammo counts against DR? So an archer with a +5 bow can't hurt a creature with DR 15/+1? What happened to the magic being applied to the ammo?
I can understand why they don't want the magic to stack when it comes to DR, but it should overlap; that is, count the ammo or the weapon, whichever's better.
Here's one, kind of obscure.
According to the rules, it's better to use a masterwork bow and a masterwork arrow than to use a +1 magic bow and a masterwork arrow.
Why? Magic bonuses for weapons and ammunition stack, and masterwork bonuses for weapons and ammunition stack, but a masterwork bonus on ammo does not stack with a magic weapon.
Also, everywhere in the rules, it says magic ranged weapons apply their magic to the ammo. That's why a +2 thundering longbow grants the +2 damage--and the thundering on a crit--to the arrow.
Yet only the magic of the ammo counts against DR? So an archer with a +5 bow can't hurt a creature with DR 15/+1? What happened to the magic being applied to the ammo?
I can understand why they don't want the magic to stack when it comes to DR, but it should overlap; that is, count the ammo or the weapon, whichever's better.
Wishes...
Get rid of ALL Pseudo-Feats. Give the PCs the REAL Feats, instead!
Ambidexterity gives full Strength bonus to both hands. Adding Two-Weapon Fighting gives -0/-0.
"Swashes" (a contraction of "sweeping smashes"), known as bashes in 3e, can be conducted with bucklers (hence the word "swashbucklers").
Remove the restriction that bucklers can't be spiked. Not only did they exist historically, but they also existed in 1e (Unearthed Arcana).
Give Elves back their bonus to INT, explain trancing (are they aware?), give them back +1 with all swords and bows, explain why a chaotic race prefers Wizardry to Sorcery, give them back their 1e ability to cast in armor (which other races couldn't), give them back their 90% resistance to Sleep & Charm. (This won't happen, for backwards compatibility).
FIX THE PSION AND RANGER! The Psion is the weakest class, and the Ranger the next-most. How to fix them and still be backwards-compatible is the problem... For the Ranger, some bonus Feats and special abilities should do the job. The Feats would replace Ambidexterity/T-WF, and the extra ability might give bonuses to all movement skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Profession (Guide & Sailor), Ride, Swim, Tumble, and Wilderness Lore. Perhaps Ranger level/2, rounded down?
Rework spell levels totally (won't be done).
Remove the restriction that Spellcraft checks to recognize spells require listening to the WHOLE spell! Since all spells are spoken in Draconic, and the words are the same for the same spell each time, it makes no sense, and it makes no sense that you can counterspell if you have to listen to the WHOLE spell (meaning it is already cast) before you can begin doing anything to counter it!
Fer cryin' out loud, return invisibility to a simple penalty to hit... It used to be -4, but that's too low, now. The current system is just too many rolls for too little! First you roll to hit... then you roll for a miss chance... then I re-roll to hit for my Blind-Fighting... It used to be that I rolled once, with -4 to hit, and Blind-Fight decreased that to -2. Simple. Easy. Better!
While we're at it, the rules for invisibility invalidate my skills, elevating magic WAY over them! I can't attack an invisible creature AT ALL, unless it attacks me, I have Blind-Fight (and it is within 30'), I have magic, or I exceed its Move Silently with my Listen by 20 OR MORE, or make a DC 20+ Spot? How can I succeed in a Listen and know something invisible is out there, and NOT know where it is, at least well enough to target it with a missile weapon?
(Consider this: A Ranger with Spot & Listen maxed out, Blind-Fight, and a bow, up against a flying goblin sorcerer with improved invisibility... No Spot, cause there's nothing to spot. He's seventh level, so CAN'T POSSIBLY succeed in a DC 40 check. The Gobbie is outside 30', so Blind-Fight is no good! Gobbo can lob fireballs and magic missiles, and all the Ranger can do is Ready an action to fire when it appears, or blindly pick a square and fire into it to see if the dumb thing is there!)
Get rid of ALL Pseudo-Feats. Give the PCs the REAL Feats, instead!
Ambidexterity gives full Strength bonus to both hands. Adding Two-Weapon Fighting gives -0/-0.
"Swashes" (a contraction of "sweeping smashes"), known as bashes in 3e, can be conducted with bucklers (hence the word "swashbucklers").
Remove the restriction that bucklers can't be spiked. Not only did they exist historically, but they also existed in 1e (Unearthed Arcana).
Give Elves back their bonus to INT, explain trancing (are they aware?), give them back +1 with all swords and bows, explain why a chaotic race prefers Wizardry to Sorcery, give them back their 1e ability to cast in armor (which other races couldn't), give them back their 90% resistance to Sleep & Charm. (This won't happen, for backwards compatibility).
FIX THE PSION AND RANGER! The Psion is the weakest class, and the Ranger the next-most. How to fix them and still be backwards-compatible is the problem... For the Ranger, some bonus Feats and special abilities should do the job. The Feats would replace Ambidexterity/T-WF, and the extra ability might give bonuses to all movement skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Profession (Guide & Sailor), Ride, Swim, Tumble, and Wilderness Lore. Perhaps Ranger level/2, rounded down?
Rework spell levels totally (won't be done).
Remove the restriction that Spellcraft checks to recognize spells require listening to the WHOLE spell! Since all spells are spoken in Draconic, and the words are the same for the same spell each time, it makes no sense, and it makes no sense that you can counterspell if you have to listen to the WHOLE spell (meaning it is already cast) before you can begin doing anything to counter it!
Fer cryin' out loud, return invisibility to a simple penalty to hit... It used to be -4, but that's too low, now. The current system is just too many rolls for too little! First you roll to hit... then you roll for a miss chance... then I re-roll to hit for my Blind-Fighting... It used to be that I rolled once, with -4 to hit, and Blind-Fight decreased that to -2. Simple. Easy. Better!
While we're at it, the rules for invisibility invalidate my skills, elevating magic WAY over them! I can't attack an invisible creature AT ALL, unless it attacks me, I have Blind-Fight (and it is within 30'), I have magic, or I exceed its Move Silently with my Listen by 20 OR MORE, or make a DC 20+ Spot? How can I succeed in a Listen and know something invisible is out there, and NOT know where it is, at least well enough to target it with a missile weapon?
(Consider this: A Ranger with Spot & Listen maxed out, Blind-Fight, and a bow, up against a flying goblin sorcerer with improved invisibility... No Spot, cause there's nothing to spot. He's seventh level, so CAN'T POSSIBLY succeed in a DC 40 check. The Gobbie is outside 30', so Blind-Fight is no good! Gobbo can lob fireballs and magic missiles, and all the Ranger can do is Ready an action to fire when it appears, or blindly pick a square and fire into it to see if the dumb thing is there!)
Re: Wishes...
The D&D buckler is nothing like historical bucklers.
Citing UA is not exactly helping your case, you realise.
Hm, it would appear someone is still suffering from MYTC (My Favourite Twink Class) syndrome.
Skill bonus items are absurdly cheap by default. Or wait a few levels and get a see invisibility item. Or get your friendly wizard to do a dispel magic.
Steverooo said:
The D&D buckler is nothing like historical bucklers.
Citing UA is not exactly helping your case, you realise.
Hm, it would appear someone is still suffering from MYTC (My Favourite Twink Class) syndrome.
Skill bonus items are absurdly cheap by default. Or wait a few levels and get a see invisibility item. Or get your friendly wizard to do a dispel magic.
Greybar
No Trouble at All
Does anyone else think that sling bullets are outrageously heavy? Try having your halfling rogue carry enough to be useful without popping into medium encumbrance.
Recent research I've been doing happened across the heaviest sling bullets in the real world being 185g, with the average more like 100g or a quarter pound. For those without the rules handy, sling bullets are listed at a half pound a piece.
John
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